Redbook values and cleaned coins

Widely believed ? Let me put it this way, the Red Book is so far off of values that nobody, and I mean nobody, in the coin business would ever use the Red Book for value info.

A lot of people misunderstand the concept. First of all, any problem coin - and that includes those that have been harshly cleaned, have altered surfaces, that are damaged, etc etc etc - cannot be graded. Problem coins have no grade at all - ever.

When a TPG puts AU, XF, VF, whatever, on a Genuine or Details slab they are not grading the coin. All they are doing is telling you that the problem coin has details that are similar to a problem free AU, XF, VF, whatever. So no, it does not knock it down one grade because there is no grade.

Part of the reason for the confusion over knocking it down a grade comes from the fact that ANACS used to net grade coins. They used to list the problem on the slab, and then assign a net grade based on the severity of the problem for that specific coin. So yes, ANACS, but only ANACS and only during that specific time period, would "knock the grade down". But even they quit doing that because it confused too many people.

That's where the idea comes from.

 

Don't regret buying the Red Book. The Red Book is literally full of very good information. You just need to ignore and not pay any attention to the values listed in the Red Book.

The Grey Sheet is good, yes. But you have to understand that the values listed in the Grey Sheet are only for coins that you can view in hand, and coins that are only average for the grade (that does not mean the average price, far from it in fact !). What that means is that coins of a given grade may well be worth less than what is listed in the Grey Sheet, or may well be worth a good deal more than what is listed in the Grey Sheet.

As for other sources, Heritage is one of the best. When you use Heritage you get to see the full price range for a given coin in a given grade. Realized prices from other auction houses are also good.

But ebay is different, and I always recommend that people do not use ebay to check prices. That is because there are way too many people buying coins on ebay that have no clue about what they are doing or what coins are really worth. And because of that they pay way too much for the coins they buy. So if you use the completed prices on ebay then you are going to think the coins are worth more than they really are.

ebay is a self perpetuating price inflation machine.

 

What specifically are you referring to when you say catalog values ? If you are talking about a price guide on a web site, from a magazine, or printed by anybody, other than the Grey Sheet, then yes.

There is not a single price guide out there that is worth the paper it is printed on.

 

NGC does not even have a price guide of their own, all they do is use Numismedia. yeah I know they call it the NGC Price Guide, but it isn't. They are just taking their info direct from Numismedia. NGC even tells you that.

Take the time sometime to look up the sources that the various price guides, any of them, use for the values listed in them. What you find when you do is usually surprising to most. And it goes a long way in explaining why the values listed in price guides are so far off from reality.

And yes, lots of folks use various price guides. But that doesn't mean that they should, or that the information in them is any good. And that's why lots of people pay way too much for coins every single day. It also a large part of the reason why 95% or more of collectors lose money on their collections when they eventually sell them.

 

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, especially the part about driving to Buffalo.

If you are asking me what specific dealer you should go to, there's probably a hundred of them, maybe hundreds. The dealer you go to, (and you don't necessarily have to drive there, most have web sites and go to coin shows), depends on the specific coin you are looking for. That's because some dealers specialize in cents or copper coins, and you don't go to a dealer who specializes in copper when you want a half dollar. You go to a dealer who specializes in what you want specifically.

Honestly, all around, Heritage is about as good as it gets. You can find virtually anything on Heritage if you use a little patience. And the price you pay to Heritage is less than you'd pay on ebay far more often than not, and often less than what most dealers would charge. Lots and lots of dealers buy their stuff on Heritage after all - then they sell it for more.

Also, depending on how much money you spend on coins in a given year can have a bearing on where you go. I say that because it is possible for individual collectors to join the electronic dealer networks, and you can buy coins at wholesale there. But you do have to pay a membership fee to do that. But if you spend $2000 on coins in a year, and you spend $200-$300 for your membership fee, and by doing that you can save $500 on that $2000 worth of coins, then it was well worth it to pay your membership fee. At a $100 a coin, you get 2 or 3 coins free. Compared to what you would have had to pay elsewhere.

So where do you go, is not a simple question. The answer will vary depending upon what you want specifically.