Featured Recycled Article No. 1: Coin Show Etiquette

Hey folks, since I cancelled my attendance at the ANA Summer Seminar (due to the heavy smoke, ashes and evacuations) and I don't have any shows until mid July, I found myself with a little extra time, so I hope you don't mind but I thought I'd recycle some articles I've written (and posted) before. It's been quite a while and perhaps these will be helpful to some of the new folks on this forum. This first one is on Coin Show Etiquette through the dealer's perspective. Comments are welcome!

Coin Show Etiquette
(From a Dealer’s Perspective)
​

Recently, I wrote a couple articles having to do with difficult customers, so I thought it might be helpful to remind collectors about some simple coin show courtesies and etiquette, as well as give a few pointers to those new to attending coin shows. Of course, courtesy goes both ways; however, if you want to try and get the best deal and/or build a relationship with a dealer, it can only help your position if put your best foot forward, come prepared, are knowledgeable, courteous, and most of all behave professionally.

So I’ve gathered information from other dealers and collectors, as well as my own experience on some "do’s and don’ts" that may be useful to practice while you hunt for that perfect coin!

Preparing for the Show

• Bring cash with you – many dealers don't take credit cards, especially for bullion coins
• Organize your reference material and notes ahead of time – make a list of the coins you are seeking, and be sure you keep your notes and price lists organized so you can find them quickly so as not to waste time at a dealer’s table flipping through pages to find something
• Make a list of dealers and their table numbers that you want to visit – if dealer lists are available ahead of time, map out the dealers who might have the specific material you’re looking for

Arriving at a Dealer’s Table

• Don’t step between or behind a dealer’s table – this area is for the dealer and their helpers only and is off limits to non-badge holders
• Don’t interrupt a dealer – if a dealer is already involved with another customer, either wait or come back later
• Don’t block another customer’s access to a dealer’s table – be courteous so that other customers may also peruse the dealer’s coins
• Don’t spread your notes, reference books, or briefcase on a dealer’s case – it may block other potential buyers’ view of the dealer’s coins
• Don’t place your belongings in a separate chair – it prevents another potential customer from being able to sit and peruse coins
• Keep track of young children – don’t let young children climb on the chairs, cases, and table, and keep them from touching and handling items on display
• Let the dealer know what your interests are – unless you’re just browsing, tell the dealer specifically what you are looking for and even your budget guidelines
• Don’t ask to see the coins currently being shown to another customer – wait until the customer is completely finished looking at and discussing that coin before you make inquiries
• Don’t place food or beverages on top of the dealer’s case – put them on your lap or on the floor

Viewing a Dealer’s Coins

• Keep the coins separate from your reference material and bags – books and papers have been known to be good places to slip a coin or two and many dealers have lost coins this way, so try to bring the minimum amount of paper onto the table
• Only ask to see a coin if you’re seriously interested in purchasing it – don’t ask to see a coin just to compare it to one you already have or just purchased
• Don't monopolize dealer "junk boxes" – keep your time sifting through dealer’s junk boxes limited to around 15 minutes so as to let others have a chance to go through them
• Don’t reach into a dealer’s case – unless the dealer specifically tells you it’s ok, do not reach for a coin in a dealer’s case, let the dealer retrieve it for you
• Handle coins properly – hold all coins, even slabs, by the edges
• Don’t take photographs of a dealer’s coins unless you get permission – for security purposes, some dealers may be opposed to having their coins photographed and some coin shows ban photography altogether
• Keep any coins a dealer hands you on top of the case – don’t put them on your lap or down below eye level, and don’t step away from a dealer's table with unpaid for coins even for a moment
• When you hand a coin back, make sure the dealer knows you have given it back – don’t just leave it on top of the case and walk away
• Put a coin back exactly where you got it – when flipping through boxes or bins, be sure to replace it in the proper box or tray if you don't end up buying it
• Don’t criticize a coin if you don’t like – just hand it back and say thank you
• Be cognizant of taking up too much of a dealer’s time asking questions – many dealers will take the time to answer questions and offer advice, but don’t be burdensome - keep in mind they are there to sell coins so don’t sit in front of their cases asking a lot of questions when the dealer has other customers waiting
• Make sure you haven’t left behind any coins you brought with you – when you leave a table, double-check your pockets, bags, and papers to make sure you have all that you brought with you, including your loupe and especially any coins

Negotiating

• Don’t choose the highest quality coins in a dealer’s case and then expect to pay a wholesale price – dealers usually have to pay strong prices to acquire quality pieces, so don’t insult them by choosing their best coins and wanting to buy them at wholesale or Grey Sheet prices
• Have realistic expectations – do your homework because if you have unrealistic expectations, it can lead to insulting offers and bad feelings all the way around
• Don’t try to negotiate when the price is fair – ask the dealer for the price, and if you think it is fair, then pay it, don’t keep trying to negotiate; besides, if an offer is made and a counteroffer received, the original offer is no longer valid and the dealer doesn’t legally have to honor the original offer, so you may lose the deal altogether
• Don’t try to haggle if you cherry pick a coin – many dealers don’t mind if you happen to “cherry” pick a coin from them (meaning, you find a rare date or variety that was unmarked), but as mentioned above, don’t try and negotiate if you happen on a good buy
• Don't ask a dealer to put a coin on hold – unless you are serious about purchasing a coin, offer to place a deposit on the coin to hold it, but it is not fair to ask a dealer to keep a coin out of their inventory while you continue to shop around and never even go back to inform the dealer you changed your mind
• Don’t buy a coin then try to return it because you found something else – if you try to do this, most likely you will lose the ability to conduct any further business with that dealer, and possibly others

So the next time you’re at a coin show, if you keep these tips in mind, hopefully you will be more successful in your hunt for coins but at the very least, you will be appreciated and respected by the dealers you encounter!

 

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Always good notes.

 

Thanks, Charmy. You have such clear and consise writing. It's a joy to read!

 

In your experience which of these rules/suggestions do you see broken most often?

How about the one that annoys you the most?

 

You had me right up to the negotiating part.
There I strongly disagree with you.
Irrespective of the coin, whether a cherry pick, an average strike or a pristine example, ALWAYS NEGOTIATE - ALWAYS!!!!! Did I mention ALWAYS?
Of course the dealer would absolutely love it if buyers paid the asking price but I feel that is an unrealistic expectation on their part.

 

Mark and Kasia, thank you for your kind comments!

Camlov, first, these are not "rules," they are suggestions or guidelines that will prove helpful to any collector attending a coin show. In my experience, the one that is probably not adhered to the most is that people constantly place all their bags and material on top of showcases and are oblivious that it blocks others from being able to see the material underneath their stuff. I just think that it is natural for people to place their materials on the table in front of them, but it really is something collectors should actively keep in mind when perusing a dealer's coin cases.

When this happens I kindly ask if they could move their belongings to the chair in front of them or I will even offer to place it by me behind the cases. When I am at a dealer's case looking at coins, if a chair is not available, I often place my bag or notebook on the floor in between my feet, or on top of my toes so I can feel if anyone might reach for it.

And to respond to your question about which of the above bugs me the most, the following will answer your question and respond to Coin Geazer's post:

CoinGeazer, remember, this is from a dealer's perspective; however, you miss my point. Not everything is negotiable. If you think that negotiating is "always" appropriate, then you will potentially risk the loss of what could be an important relationship with a dealer who may have just the material that you are looking for. There are some coins in my inventory where my price is firm and non-negotiable. If you ask for my best price and I tell you that my price is firm, then I prefer that you either accept that price or move on. If you continue to try and negotiate, this can sometimes appear as antagonistic, and that person may become someone who I will prefer not to do business with. To me, when someone keeps pushing, it appears as if they are challenging me, rather than simply negotiating.

I have had people ask for my best price on a coin, which is fine, but when I tell them the price is firm, and they continued to try and negotiate, on top of giving me a lowball number which really irked me, it felt like they were acting like it was more of a game to them, so I ended any further negotiations.

The bottom line is that it all depends on the individual attitude and "style" of negotiating, which I believe is more of an art and not a game. If you come across as playing a game, then for me, any negotiating is over. As the song goes, "you gotta know when to hold um, know when to fold um, know when to walk away, and know when to run"!!!

 

Very information, even though I never negotiate on a coin, I just pay what the tag says. I need to get out of that habit.

 

Good Lord, I can never haggle with you girl. You are always fair and up front with all your wares.....

Still, is there a little 'wiggle' room?

 

WoW ! It's hard to believe people actually do those things. I didn't realize just how rude and crude people can be, I guess.

 

This is all very good advice. Thanks for posting it again. :smile

One thing dealers can do is not to let people monopolize their time at shows. I have been to several shows in which dealers will let some people camp out at their table making it hard to even gain access to view coins. This is especially frustrating when the conversation is not numismatically related. Maybe you can post some advice for dealers on customer control.

TC

 

Charmy, I have posted before on haggling.

In no way do I advocate browbeating a dealer, as you seem to imply.
Polite negotiation often results in saving money.
However it's my opinion that if you don't ask, you don't get.

 

The one I would like to add as an experienced coin show attendee is: Don't walk or stand with your hands in your pockets near the dealer's tables. Since there is so much theft, it makes dealers and prospective buyers very nervous (rightfully so).

 

Thanks for posting all of these fascinating don'ts. Now I'm more certain than ever that coin shows are not for me.

 

Excellent stuff, Charmy!

I must "agree" with CoinGeezer however...EVERYTHING is negotiable.

IMO (and I think this topic has come up before) I think it's a function of how one goes about it.

I don't believe you, or any other dealer (at least, not one worth their salt) has any problem with me setting a price I'm willing to pay for a coin, and hoping to purchase the coin at or below that price.

And I certainly don't have a problem with a dealer setting a price he or she is willing to accept for a coin, and hoping to sell it at or above that price.

To me...negotiation is simply the process of us determining if those two prices meet somewhere. If it's done politely, and from a position of informed consent on both parts, I don't think it's disrespectful at all for me to suggest a price I'd like to pay, and you to suggest one you'd like to get. If my top price is significantly below your bottom one, then one of us feels considerably differently about the coin than the other, and there's no sense in beating on each other over it. I'll politely say "Ok, thanks for your time." and move on.

Hopefully that sort of engagement...an honest, polite, and respectful process...doesn't "cost me the opportunity" to do business with you in the future.

 

Coin shows can be fun and rewarding, despite some dealers who apparently hate their customers and feel like they are doing them a favor by allowing them to buy their precious coins.
It's usually easier to haggle at a small coin show then at a huge one like the ANA shows.

 

I would have one slight disagreement with you Charmy, and one agreement with you versus CoinGeezer.

For the disagreement, you say to not "insult" the dealer with greysheet price for a good coin. Well, I would say it would depend on the coin, the series, how fast they are moving, etc. You may have an excellent 65 commemorative, but if commemoratives are slow I may "insult" you with a greysheet offer. I don't knwo how strong you had to pay, and if I see other dealers selling at greysheet I do not see how it would be insulting.

As for the agreement, I fully agree if you cherry pick a coin and are getting it for less that its worth to just pay the asking price. I say this since I have known of cases where a dealer had an unmarked coin and someone cherrypicked it. Ok, thats fair. As soon as the dealer picked the coin up he knew he had missed the rarity but he was going to honor the sale. However, the cherrypicker pressed his luck and then demanded a discount. The dealer, (fully in his rights, heck technically he didn't even have to sell it at the listed price), then said, "no thank you, that price is not acceptable". He placed the coin in his bag and was no longer for sale.

I thought about this situation for quite some time, but have come to the conclusion the dealer was absolutely right and ethical. He was going to honor his price, even though legally a price marked is an offer to inquire and not legally binding on him. However, the collector being greedy then offered a lower price. This offer negated the dealer having to honor his marked price, at which time the dealer was ethically justified in taking to coin off sale.

To me, any counteroffer on a cherrypicked item is putting at risk you being able to buy that item at any price. If you just picked a $500 coin with a $85 price tag, do you really wish to take that risk?

 

I'm actually kinda surprised this rubbish got printed, except for unintentional laughs. Don't haggle on cherry picks? What are you, kidding? Maybe I shouldn't wear my favorite blue sweater either. Might upset the precious sensitive dealer. Negotiating with coin sellers is warfare, same as haggling with the oily-hair guy down at the Toyota dealership. There are no rules, other than here's my price. If you don't like it, I walk.

 

That's an excellent reason why it may not be WISE to haggle a cherry-picked coin *heh*...but I don't see it as a compelling reason to suggest it's somehow "inappropriate" behaviour to do so.

Then again, maybe I can see Charmy's side after all.... :rollling:

 

Thats your right of course. The incident I witnessed was a man who lost a $1800 rare Overton CBH because he asked for a $20 discount from $85. If you wish to risk that, then go for it man.

 

gboulton, you hit the nail on the head. Yes, respectful negotiation from both sides is the key.

CoinGeezer, I'm sorry you feel that I hate my customers and that this is all that you are getting out of these articles. As I mentioned on my other thread, I truly LOVE being a coin dealer. I feel the do's and don'ts would actually be helpful to new coin people. Take them or leave them, that's up to you. And if you prefer not to take them into consideration, no problem. These do's and don'ts are just suggestions to help make the coin show experience more positive - for both sides.

I know when I first started out that I would have liked to have a better understanding of certain aspects of attending a coin show because I was clueless about how my actions might be annoying to some people.

And even if you don't like these do's and don'ts, at least this thread is getting people discussing what behavior they feel is acceptable/not acceptable at coin shows - from both sides, so that is a good thing!