Rebuttal to PNG Survey - How interesting!

Originally Posted by The_Cave_Troll
It is this second goal that I am talking about. When I say they are fighting the good fight, what I mean is that even though it would be easier and arguably cheaper to have settled long ago, they have refused. I appreciate that. Of course they have tried to have the case dismissed (a ruling in their favor), but even though that hasn't happened they haven't bailed out on us collectors.

Speedy this is what I am talking about. Have you ever had to go to court, it is not the place to be. I would totally agree with Condor that if these folks could get out of it they would. From the bottom of my heart I do not believe they are hanging in for " The Little Guy " but because they cannot get out of it. I do not think there is a " Good Fight " in court, only money to be gained or lost IMHO.

 

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First let me say on the age thing that after thinking it over that was probably out of line. I think of the TV program Doogie Howser, MD and hearing of someone ever now and then graduating from Harvard or Yale at 16 years old. Speedy could well be in that class and it is not for me to judge on age. I stand corrected.

As far as the ANA and their fund, well I wonder about them. When the hot topic of Midas being kicked off of eBay over SGS was going on I personally called them and ask how they could endorse eBay with their logo when it was pretty apparent something wrong was going on. They told me it was being investigated well over a month ago and their logo is still there and you know who is still selling MS/PR 70's by the pound. Perhaps the ANA is primarily interested in selling coffee mugs and grading courses and not a lot more. Are you sure that money was used to defend individuals and not the ANA itself? Did they ever publish how much was collected and how it was spent.

You are also correct in the fact that I do not know all of the facts in this litigation but only what I have been able to research on the Internet. I do have a few ACG coins and do not find them offensive or mis graded to my eye.

 

Looks like you are right, that very fact about defending individuals is mentioned in the complaint.

" Once this action was commenced and as part of and in furtherance of the antitrust conspiracy, the ANA created an unprecedented legal defense fund for the individual defendants in order to obstruct ACG from vindicating its rights and restoring true competition to the rare coin grading industry. "

http://www.ewebnation.com/swcgs/ASA_v_ANA.html

Seems like I saw mention on the ANA site about the legal fund but do not find it now.

As far as the ANA endorsing eBay with their logo this quote is from the SGS website.
"An Independent Study has recently found that SGS currently accounts for
7% of all Graded Coins sold on the internet auction site eBay. "

 

What does this look like to you!
http://pages.ebay.com/coins_code_of_conduct/

And No, I do not believe I could use the ANA Logo on my web site without their express permission.

And No, this ANA Logo has nothing to do with antiques, etc.

And Yes, eBay is turning a blind eye to SGS and ANA is going along with it.

 

Remove their logo and collaboration from this eBay site.
http://pages.ebay.com/coins_code_of_conduct/

 

This looks like a pretty simple rule:
MS 68 - A difficult grade to determine by most experts. When does a coin become MS 68 but is not quite MS69 or 70? A very superior coin with maybe just a minor tick on either side keeping it from perfection.

MS 69 - This is a coin that should create a gasp when viewed. There should be no imperfections to the naked eye. With a magnifying glass a minor mark or impediment may be visible.

MS 70 - A perfect coin with no imperfections seen with a magnifying glass. There should be no marks whatsoever; the coin must look like it just left the Mint. Very unusual in early coins as the mint did not have the quality they do today. Modern coins have been given this exalted grade although there is debate whether coins can be perfect.

On a positive note I wonder how many of the 5,000 + members of this forum are ANA members? I do not understand the poll option but do you suppose you could make a poll and find out? If there are 1000 members that represents $35,000.00 in annual revenue to the ANA. Actually it means more than that as their advertising rates are based on the circulation numbers of their magazine. You mentioned some members may be beholding to them because they had their legal fees paid but probably not too many. You know someday we are all going to have to sell our coins to the new collectors entering the field, as there are no hearses with luggage racks. It is a shame if they are ruined early on by being laughed out of a coin shop. Your thoughts?

 

Unprecedented, but from reports from some of the little guys who got caught up in the ACG lawsuit, they have been unable to get ANY money out of the legal defense fund to help with their legal fees. Apparently the legal defense fund is only being used to help with the defense of the ANA board members that have been charged.

I don't see them as "Rules" which would imply some sort of enforcement. I see them as definitions or guides. Even when the ANA wrote them they were part of a grading guide. If you don't follow the guide no one is going to show up at your door and haul you off to some grading jail or not even just break your legs. If you don't want to follow their guide and want to use your own standards you can. People who don't agree with your standards will not buy from you.

 

Thanks! Where would one find that news?

 

Thanks, I see it in the July 17th issue. Looks like they leave the door open to the Plaintiff to refile being more specific. Looks like the ANA legal fund worked giving them enough money to out lawyer the little guy. Everyone who donated should have a great sense of pride.
Thanks.

 

I completely agree! There should be great pride on the part of those who assisted in putting an end to the shenannigans of that lawsuit! Chalk one up for the good guys.

 

Speaking of precocious 19 year old persons, what a wonderful history lesson from Heritage Galleries:

William H. Seward was a well educated man born to an affluent New York family. A penchant for learning allowed him to graduate with a law degree from Union College at the age of 19. Over the next decade, Seward spent time practicing law in Georgia and New York and developed a stance against slavery. Seward's empathy towards others may have led him to leave law and enter the political arena where he first served as a New York State Senator from 1831 to 1834. Between his position in the Senate and serving as Governor of New York from 1839 to 1843, he was an advocate for education and prison reform. As a United States Senator, he spent most of his tenure between 1849 and 1861 advocating rights for slaves and speaking out against legislation like the Fugitive Slave Act and Compromise of 1850.




The leadership abilities that William H. Seward showed as a Senator brought him to the forefront of American politics. In 1856, he lost out on the presidential nomination to John C. Fremont. Over the next few years, Seward relaxed his ardent stand on certain political positions to make himself a palatable candidate for the presidential nomination in 1860. This plan did not bode well for the presidential hopeful, and in 1860, the Republican Party nominated Abraham Lincoln. Seward did not sit idly by throughout the rest of the campaign and subsequent election; he campaigned for Lincoln, a fellow anti-slavery advocate.

Abraham Lincoln did not overlook William H. Seward's hard work during his campaign for President, ultimately appointing him to his cabinet as Secretary of State. Seward's role in the Lincoln administration nearly led him to the same fate as the President. John Wilkes Booth organized two other Confederate sympathizers to participate in assassination attempts on Vice President Andrew Johnson, and Seward. On the same night that Lincoln was assassinated, co-conspirator Lewis Powell conned his way into Seward's home and stabbed him repeatedly. Members of Seward's family were also seriously injured in the incident.

William H. Seward would best be known for his work as Secretary of State under President Andrew Johnson. Seward's new political agenda included westward expansion and he was instrumental in purchasing Alaska from Russia for $7,200,000, as well as the acquisition of the Midway Islands. At the time however, the acquisition of Alaska was not viewed in a positive light and was quickly nicknamed "Seward's Folly". Accounting for inflation, the amount paid in 1867 for Alaska is equivalent to approximately one day's worth of oil production today.

Two towns, Seward, Alaska and Seward, New York, a mountain peak in New York, and the Seward Peninsula in Alaska bear the name of this important United States politician.

Surprisingly, even rarer than the American that knows Seward's legacy is the currency that bears his portrait. The Series 1891 $50 Treasury Note was printed to pay for silver purchases as part of the Sherman Silver Purchase Act of 1890. A total of 80,000 notes were printed, though only 23,500 were actually issued.

Today, only 22 examples of the Seward $50 are known to exist, of which, six are permanently impounded in institutional collections.

 

How funny! Tee Hee Hee!