Rebuttal to PNG Survey - How interesting!

Translation: the ones with money!

These 4 corporations are doing the right thing and forcing this issue to a conclusion. Their actions are protecting us little guys, so that after their case is settled and a matter of precedent we will have more protection to speak out against the bottom-feeders of the industry. I applaud them for their commitment to seeing this to the end.

 

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It appears that you have started this "investigation with a conclusion (an erroneous one at that) and you are working the problem the wrong way. Of course you are going to reach your predetermined conclusion! The bias in your method and thinking guarantees it; and your research will prove little beyond the fact that you predetermined the results.

I hope I'm wrong, but you aren't asking the right questions to get a fair result.

 

I suppose a jury will decide that.

 

Doyou have any doubt that I am right?

 

I think that you have not learned to use spell check yet. My thoughts will cease there for the time being.

 

There is no need to pick on someone spelling---we all mess up at times and around here we are family---we don't pick on each other.

Speedy

 

I agree----when you go out to find that PCI is the best---you will find that by your test---but that doesn't mean that you are right....the test would be wrong.
If you want to do a survey of grading companies you will have to do what Conder suggested in the other thread---send the same coin to each grading company a hand full of times....and not only one coin but proof coins and UNC coins....and many many coins....just buying a coin here and a coin there won't prove anything----

Speedy

 

Appreciate the input in both previous posts Speedy.

I would be about as believable as ABON with the trillions people have spent on NCG and PCGS coins if I came to that conclusion don't you think. I just wonder, among other things, if the second tier is really the 2 to 6 grading points that is bandied about. It is my money and my time invested and is a rather enjoyable undertaking as I get to look at some nice coins. I did get my first MS 64 today and it is interesting to look at a lower grade.

 

Yes they are---not all of the time but most of the time---there are times when PCI and NNC and all of the rest undergrade---hit the grade right on....and just miss it by 1 point.....but for the most part the companies other than NGC/PCGS/ANACS/ICG overgrade.

Speedy

 

kongradulashins, ur nitpikkin off mi spelin proovs ur piont, uhhh, mabey knot. Actually all of those words were spelled correctly, I just failed to place a space between two of them. If I were writing a documentary or a research paper, I would care, but this being the internet, honestly grammar and spelling are not my primary goals when conversing in this forum.

 

Actually they are NOT trying to force it to a conclusion. All four have petitioned the curts to have the case against them dismissed. I think it is unlikely that this case will ever be heard by a jury, and I doubt that Hagar wants it to be actually heard. The common consensus is that the cases were filed in order to one stifle disent and adverse comments against him and his company, and two to try and extract out of court settlements from the defendents in order to make the case go away. To a moderate extent he succeeded in the first goal, but he has utterly failed at the second.

 

It is this second goal that I am talking about. When I say they are fighting the good fight, what I mean is that even though it would be easier and arguably cheaper to have settled long ago, they have refused. I appreciate that. Of course they have tried to have the case dismissed (a ruling in their favor), but even though that hasn't happened they haven't bailed out on us collectors.

 

I have no idea how the lawsuit will turn out but I am curious about a few things.

1) ACG claims to have a much superior holder to the other services but eye appeal of that holder and the label are low (imho). It looks amateurish.

2) The ACG website again, looks like crap compared to say PCGS.

3) Apparently they operate from a PO Box which does not scream high quality grading powerhouse to me.(I see the building but it appears this way nonetheless)

These 3 items apply to other grading services as well and if you expect to compete today then you must look professional, stable and competent or your product (service) will not generally be acceptable. This applies to both potential customers who submit coins and persons that shy away from buying coins in unporfessional looking slabs.

I don't know if there is some conspiracy to harm ACG or not but I did want to make the point that they are not helping themselves in any way by trying to improve the professional look of their product (service). How about redo the website and information card on the slab for starters and try to understand that it is quite possible that dealers cannot sell ACG slabs to collectors and get tired of people just passing the slabs by.

That is to say value is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for an item and if people just don't generally by them then the value is simply not there.

Like I said, get a better looking product and a professional looking website and order form or no matter what the result of some lawsuit is, noone is going to care.

 

Good points ! The ACG see through slab is pretty cool though and you can almost see the the edges like the new ANACS slab offers! I think the PO boxes are good sense as some grading companies could be holding as much value as Fort Knox could have had at one time.

 

Thanks for the info but this is hardly a surprise. Grading has and always will be subjective and companies (like individuals) have and always will make statements to bolster their image. I have stated until I am blue in the face that NGC & PCGS do NOTHING different than other reputable services insofar as methodologies used in determining authentication, variation or grade. They perform the same tests, consult the same "experts", lok in the same books as 99% of the other graders. What sets them apart are the large sums spent on marketing as both companies try to convince the numismatic world that they are somehow the "standard". Of course what they mean is that they grade the most coins - illogical but compelling.

Their graders have years of experience but subjectivity has never been worse, especially in the shadowy MS63-MS67 range when a notch up or down results in thousands gained or lost. If grading was objective there would be no need to resubmit coins over and over as is the norm. Yes, I own PCGS & NGC but for the same reason a member listed above - the coin, not the slab. Brand loyalty is a powerful tool whether it's a car ("I only drive Ford"), beer ("I only drink Millers") or coins ("I only buy PCGS") - a phrase heard often at coin shows.

smb12321

 

Sounds like good sense to me!

 

Get a Job, go to work, give your wife some relief!

 

I don't know how you meant that....but cool it---as I said before---we don't pick on other members here.

Speedy

 

Speedy I would probably say the same thing to you if you were married. Eighteen years old and giving all this sage advice? Who has the time to make 8 posts per day on this forum and be a productive member of society? GDJMSP who may post as frequently virtually always posts a link to back up what he states.

 

John
I rarely make 8 posts per day---that is an average---and I can only hope to be a productive member...I have to ask more questions than most people...I'm still learning myself.

I don't know why have decided to pick on Cave Troll but we won't stand for it....he doesn't have to post a link to back up what he says....its always nice to post links to such items but sometimes its just as good to post our thoughts and go on.
I don't see anything in The Cave Trolls post that needs to be backed up by a link....please point me too it?

Speedy