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<p>[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 7929763, member: 110504"]...I have to equally admire and envy your access to the journal literature, both linguistically and logistically. ...There are glimmers of hoard evidence even in Boudeau (for issues of the comte de Provence, for instance), but on what amounts to a random, anecdotal basis.</p><p>One fun thing about the expansion of royal control over the currency in its earlier phases, into the reign of Louis IX, is that it's far from a monolithic process. Through that period, the inroads the Capetians were making against their more prominent vassals took place largely through very canny exploitation of existing feudal law. --That's far from the whole picture, of course, since royal administration was expanding from the reign of Philippe II. But the dramatic expansion at the expense of Jean Sans-terre (also using feudal law as pretext) was effectively the exception that proved the rule.</p><p>Relative to what was happening numismatically, here are my two favorite examples of the lingering limitations of royal control, into the reign of Louis IX.</p><p>Somewhat ironically, it was only from the royal acquisition of the viscounty of Chateaudun in the earlier 13th century (from Chateaudun's traditional suzerains, the comtes de Blois) that the viscomtes, as tenants-in-chief, began issuing coins in their own names. Here's the example it's easiest to find pictures of.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1370889[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1370890[/ATTACH]</p><p>Geoffroi V (1233-1253), denier.</p><p>Obv. (From 7 o'clock: ) GAVF [...] RID'</p><p>CA<strike>TRVMDVNI (Duplessy --Our Hero-- 504.)</strike></p><p><strike><br /></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Then there's the seigneurie of Deols. This is a fun progression.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>[ATTACH=full]1370895[/ATTACH]</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>[ATTACH=full]1370904[/ATTACH]</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Deols. Philippe II as 'baillistre' (during the minority of the female heir), 1206-1207.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Obv. +REX FILIPVS.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Rev. Magen David, annulet in center (identical to the motif in the most recent seigneurial issue, c. 160-1176). +DE DOLIS. (Duplessy 682.)</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>With the marriage of the heiress, the seigneurie was returned to the husband --whose son nonetheless replaced the annulet with a fleur-de-lis, in the following issue. (For people tuning in late, the fleur de lis was the quintessential Capetian insignia; the royal coat of arms was a field full of them.)</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>[ATTACH=full]1370907[/ATTACH]</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Guillaume I de Chauvigny, 1207-1234.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Rev. Magen David, fleur de lis in center. +DE DOLIS</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Obv. Cross, fleurs de lis in two angles. +GVILERMVS.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>The other example of an earlier 13th-c. feudal issue with fleurs de lis that leaps out at me is of Henri, Comte de Bar-le-duc. (Not in Duplessy --so far; posted not long ago.) It's also fun for the selective "Lombardic" lettering --which becomes</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>de rigueur over the 14th and 15th centuries.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>[ATTACH=full]1370913[/ATTACH]</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>[ATTACH=full]1370914[/ATTACH]</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Comte de Bar-le-duc. Henri II, 1214-1240.</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Obv. Cross with fleurs de lis in two angles. xhENRICVS COmES</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>Rev. Comital coat of arms (including two 'bars' --a kind of fish). [+B]ARRI DVCIS</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike><br /></strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>(Boudeau 1425.)</strike></strike></p><p><strike><strike>...Nope, it's like, Welcome to Formatting Hell. Except, that was an hour of my Friday that no one can give back to me.</strike></strike>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 7929763, member: 110504"]...I have to equally admire and envy your access to the journal literature, both linguistically and logistically. ...There are glimmers of hoard evidence even in Boudeau (for issues of the comte de Provence, for instance), but on what amounts to a random, anecdotal basis. One fun thing about the expansion of royal control over the currency in its earlier phases, into the reign of Louis IX, is that it's far from a monolithic process. Through that period, the inroads the Capetians were making against their more prominent vassals took place largely through very canny exploitation of existing feudal law. --That's far from the whole picture, of course, since royal administration was expanding from the reign of Philippe II. But the dramatic expansion at the expense of Jean Sans-terre (also using feudal law as pretext) was effectively the exception that proved the rule. Relative to what was happening numismatically, here are my two favorite examples of the lingering limitations of royal control, into the reign of Louis IX. Somewhat ironically, it was only from the royal acquisition of the viscounty of Chateaudun in the earlier 13th century (from Chateaudun's traditional suzerains, the comtes de Blois) that the viscomtes, as tenants-in-chief, began issuing coins in their own names. Here's the example it's easiest to find pictures of. [ATTACH=full]1370889[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1370890[/ATTACH] Geoffroi V (1233-1253), denier. Obv. (From 7 o'clock: ) GAVF [...] RID' CA[S]TRVMDVNI (Duplessy --Our Hero-- 504.) [S]Then there's the seigneurie of Deols. This is a fun progression. [ATTACH=full]1370895[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1370904[/ATTACH] Deols. Philippe II as 'baillistre' (during the minority of the female heir), 1206-1207. Obv. +REX FILIPVS. Rev. Magen David, annulet in center (identical to the motif in the most recent seigneurial issue, c. 160-1176). +DE DOLIS. (Duplessy 682.) With the marriage of the heiress, the seigneurie was returned to the husband --whose son nonetheless replaced the annulet with a fleur-de-lis, in the following issue. (For people tuning in late, the fleur de lis was the quintessential Capetian insignia; the royal coat of arms was a field full of them.) [ATTACH=full]1370907[/ATTACH] Guillaume I de Chauvigny, 1207-1234. Rev. Magen David, fleur de lis in center. +DE DOLIS Obv. Cross, fleurs de lis in two angles. +GVILERMVS. The other example of an earlier 13th-c. feudal issue with fleurs de lis that leaps out at me is of Henri, Comte de Bar-le-duc. (Not in Duplessy --so far; posted not long ago.) It's also fun for the selective "Lombardic" lettering --which becomes de rigueur over the 14th and 15th centuries. [ATTACH=full]1370913[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1370914[/ATTACH] Comte de Bar-le-duc. Henri II, 1214-1240. Obv. Cross with fleurs de lis in two angles. xhENRICVS COmES Rev. Comital coat of arms (including two 'bars' --a kind of fish). [+B]ARRI DVCIS (Boudeau 1425.) ...Nope, it's like, Welcome to Formatting Hell. Except, that was an hour of my Friday that no one can give back to me.[/S][/S][/QUOTE]
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