Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Really early Calabrian Norman AE ...or not so much?
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 4858054, member: 110504"]This is purportedly a Norman imitation of Byzantine prototypes, during the earlier phases of the invasion and occupation of southern Italy. Calabria, the 'toe' of Italy, was largely Byzantine, both politically and demographically. It was also the first part of the (revisionism alert: ) country that the most notorious of the Norman invaders, Robert 'Guiscard' (/'the Weasel') landed in.[ATTACH=full]1172955[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1172956[/ATTACH]This is some kind of imitation of Byzantine Class C folles. --Except, the diameter is around 14 millemeters!</p><p>For comparison, here's an example of the ostensible prototype, associated (let's say) with the reign of Michael IV (1034-1041). This is around 24 mm (sorry, no scales).[ATTACH=full]1172965[/ATTACH]</p><p>Back to the iffy one, I dimly remembered seeing examples like it on Italian ebay. But that was most of the traction I was getting. The American dealer who it came from referred me to a closed listing in Forvm Ancient Coins. That was some help, but mainly by way of references to which I had no access. More specifically, too recent to find online.</p><p>From there, I went back to two places. The one published reference I have (Andrea /Contreras, <u>The Norman Coins of the Kingdom of Sicily</u> (2015), lists one anonymous issue of similarly neo-Byzantine folles (28a and 28b). From there, a citation of a particular reference, Travaini (1995) caught my eye. And from that point, I went back to the listings on Italian ebay (some current), and found citations of something later by the same author. Thanks to Google Translate (only useless when you're trying to compose), it emerged that there were were indeed Norman imitations of Byzantine folles, apparently from Calabria, from the earlier phases of occupation --one range thrown around was c. 1060-1080. More specifically, that very reduced modules were involved, and that, apparently even as such, the frank imitations, however appallingly crude (evoking 11th-earlier 12th c. deniers from Normandy proper), consistently predate both the imitations of later prototypes, and subsequent issues.</p><p>...Well, that's what I'm hoping. Anyone's input would be cordially appreciated.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="+VGO.DVCKS, post: 4858054, member: 110504"]This is purportedly a Norman imitation of Byzantine prototypes, during the earlier phases of the invasion and occupation of southern Italy. Calabria, the 'toe' of Italy, was largely Byzantine, both politically and demographically. It was also the first part of the (revisionism alert: ) country that the most notorious of the Norman invaders, Robert 'Guiscard' (/'the Weasel') landed in.[ATTACH=full]1172955[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1172956[/ATTACH]This is some kind of imitation of Byzantine Class C folles. --Except, the diameter is around 14 millemeters! For comparison, here's an example of the ostensible prototype, associated (let's say) with the reign of Michael IV (1034-1041). This is around 24 mm (sorry, no scales).[ATTACH=full]1172965[/ATTACH] Back to the iffy one, I dimly remembered seeing examples like it on Italian ebay. But that was most of the traction I was getting. The American dealer who it came from referred me to a closed listing in Forvm Ancient Coins. That was some help, but mainly by way of references to which I had no access. More specifically, too recent to find online. From there, I went back to two places. The one published reference I have (Andrea /Contreras, [U]The Norman Coins of the Kingdom of Sicily[/U] (2015), lists one anonymous issue of similarly neo-Byzantine folles (28a and 28b). From there, a citation of a particular reference, Travaini (1995) caught my eye. And from that point, I went back to the listings on Italian ebay (some current), and found citations of something later by the same author. Thanks to Google Translate (only useless when you're trying to compose), it emerged that there were were indeed Norman imitations of Byzantine folles, apparently from Calabria, from the earlier phases of occupation --one range thrown around was c. 1060-1080. More specifically, that very reduced modules were involved, and that, apparently even as such, the frank imitations, however appallingly crude (evoking 11th-earlier 12th c. deniers from Normandy proper), consistently predate both the imitations of later prototypes, and subsequent issues. ...Well, that's what I'm hoping. Anyone's input would be cordially appreciated.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Really early Calabrian Norman AE ...or not so much?
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...