real shekel or not

I respect your answer a lot, but when you say my words are not true, a support of your answer would be appreciated.

I am not aware of a measurement that can validate if a coin is ancient or modern. Proven with what method? On base of an eye? An eye is not validation, if I see the color green, then how do I know you see the same? It needs to be validated by using colorimetry or photometry for example. That is why, nobody can say "the earth is round, because I see it like that from space". There need to be measurements performed to validate it is indeed round, because otherwise it would still stay a personal opinion.

On the end an expert sees a repetition of observations and uses that knowledge for to detect future cases. It is a like a doctor who says, on the base of your symptoms it looks like you have anemia (an expert opinion). Then, by testing the blood with measurements like complete blood count, it is validated that there is indeed a case of anemia.

I don't know if I think this way because I am a scientist. However, if I would go to my boss and I say, I have created this new plastic and it can hold the weight of a Boeing 747, he would laugh at me and say, please make atleast two independent samples, where you perform atleast five measurements each and I want to see the same number where it says it can hold 350 tons.

Thank you for your time.

 

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Very wrong! Old silver means nothing. There are several fakes struck on common denarii. It is no big thing to sacrifice a VG Septimius Severus to make a Pescennius Niger or a Philip to get a Silbannicus. One that worries me most is Regalianus which is usually overstruck on earlier coins so a faker could knock these out by the roll and not even have to fire up a furnace to melt the stock.

I do disagree with Barry on one thing:100% false is usually possible but 100% genuine has proven a stumbling block in the past. Our experts (of which Barry is top notch) do their best to keep up with the best of the fakers but every so often we see something new. The best example of this in my mind was the first wave of Black (not Dead - thanks Volodya, I had a brain once but that was a while back) Sea Hoard diobols. Included in my 'collection' is a card ad from a well known seller labeled '1989 Special Offerings' listing for only $500 a pair (one of each type) of what was then 'proven' genuine by some metallurgists and experts that shortly thereafter became a great embarrassment to those who trusted the wrong experts. I do not know how many of these $500 sets were sold and refunded. It happened. It will happen again. Those who must have 100% certainty in something should collect fakes. Those, we can prove beyond even the most unreasonable doubt.

,,,,one more thing. I still will turn down a coin that has been listed by or certified by any expert when I am unable to convince myself that the coin is correct. I may be wrong 999 times out of 1000 BUT I am not put in the position of later wanting to sell a coin and not being able to do so without worry on the matter. I own some fakes I know are fake (Black Museum); I may have fakes in my collection of which I am not aware and I certainly have a few coins I would not sell to someone who knows less than I do about the matter. If I own a coin that someone more capable than I says is good, I could sell it 'as is' to them but not to most people. I may not have the expertise to recognize every good coin as good and may miss a good deal BUT I prefer to buy coins that make me feel good and leave the others to others more adventuresome than I.

 

I'm pretty sure you meant Black Sea Hoard Doug, not Dead Sea.

 

Slavei's, Beckers, Paduans, cast coins, electrotypes, transfer die forgeries etc... all can be proven to be 100% false, without any dating of the metal.

A new "hoard" of Ephesos drachms that was on my desk last week, of the wrong style and varying in silver content from 40-60% instead of the usual 95-98% can all be proven 100% to be false. I could go on and on with lists of things that are 100% false.

Likewise, lots of hoard coins, coins found in excavations and many others can be proven to be 100% genuine.

100% genuine is much more difficult to get to than 100% false, especially with coins with no pedigree. The best one can do is compare the metal, strike characteristics, production method, style etc... to known authentic coins and form educated opinions.

Having been in the ancient coin business for nearly 30 years, I long ago realized that there are probably forgeries out there that no one has identified and probably never will, and I can live with that. I also believe that with the coin in hand, I can spot 99% of the forgeries that cross my desk without much of a problem, and it's a lot of forgeries, 90% of which aren't published anywhere.

Barry Murphy

 

I love Forum's rule... If you don't know enough to give advice, why not just listen?

 

Thank you for your answer.

"The best one can do is compare the metal, strike characteristics, production method, style etc... to known authentic coins and form educated opinions."

This is what I wanted to hear, thank you.

As Doug mentioned, the Black Sea Hoard was unfortunately a case of a "hoard" that misled some experts, but indeed, 99% of the coins can be determined genuine by an expert.

 

The so called expert who did the metal testing on the Black Sea Hoard wasn't a coin expert at all.

Barry Murphy

 

That just means you hit the “Post Reply” button a lot, nothing more

 

Best Answer Ever.....Period....end Of Discussion!

 

Wow, I saw this very late I guess. Not too much to contribute. Its a good fake, but aside from other comments look at the fields. They are too smooth and perfect. If one has handled a lot of coins they will be able to recognize it immediately (and it is very different from smoothed fields).

 

Here's a Tyrian shekel that I acquired last year.




Phoenicia, Tyre AR Shekel. Dated CY 113 = 14/13 BC. Laureate head of Melkart right / ΤΥPΟΥ ΙΕΡΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΣΥΛΟΥ, eagle standing left on prow, palm frond behind; to left, PIΓ above club; to right, KP above monogram; Beth between legs.

 

I've always been a sucker for coins related to or mentioned in the bible, old & new testaments, & that includes the famous "Betrayal Shekels" discussed in this thread. I bought my 1st example from Harlan Berk many years ago at a very reasonable price probably because it had been over-cleaned, see photos below. After enjoying for a long time I decided to sell it, had it slabbed, & auctioned it 7 years ago for $805.00.



Still having a desire to own a "Betrayal Shekel" after selling the Berk example I decided to look for an example that wasn't over-cleaned & had toning. I found the example pictured below, again at a very reasonable price . After owning this example for several years the mushy impression & pitting on the obverse began to annoy me . So I got this example slabbed & put it up for auction a little over a year ago. Even after getting the coin slabbed a number of collectors I showed the coin to weren't convinced of it's authenticity ! The coin sold for $930.00 . An example of this coin I'd be happy with would cost well over $2,000.00, so it's been removed from my want list .

 

I waited way too long to hit the ignore button myself...an opinion based on nothing contributes nothing. Just saying it could be true means nothing.

John

 

Nice examples of "betrayal shekels"- which were also associated with the temple tax (demanded for their consistent weight and purity (94% min silver)), money changers (Jn 2 & Mt 21), and the coin in the mouth of the fish caught by Peter (Mt 17). Also good that you were able to get an attractive return on the coins (if I interpreted your post correctly) when you decided to sell them.

My shekel search criteria included that it be of the later KP series (beginning in 14-13 BC) but dated prior to the betrayal year, and having acceptable "eye appeal" (to me).

 

Welp, I never miss an opportunity to post my shekel. Bought in the early 2000s. I couldn't afford one today. Silver is a bit crystallized and crusty. But it's still one of my favorites, and I feel lucky to have it.

I think the AN above the club indicates a date of ca. 75 BCE, though I don't know much about the dating system.

 

@ Gavin Richardson
I read AK which means Dated CY 21 (106/5 BC)

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5243250

 

Lolli is right on ! AK it is (my initials too ).

 

Here is my brother’s shekel that once belonged to me.

Sorry for the lame pics.



Erin

 

Great pics Erin! Lighting makes it very cool!

And, personalized by the “Hands of Erin”!

 

Thanks for the corrections folks.