Real or fake

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Rushmore, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    I talked to Bret and he insists the coin is authentic. He also said you can't tell whether or not the coin is real just by looking at pictures which was a jab at Coin Talk. He did offer to refund the coin at 90% if I sent it back or refund at 100% if I sent it to a TPG and they determine it to be fake. He would also reimburse the TPG fees too. And he was really condescending about it said after two years you decide its fake? I really gave him a hard time about this said I've been a customer for 25 years and this is how you treat me. And that his grading/authenticating skills leave a lot to be desired.
     
    Stevearino likes this.
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Wow, you're a tactful guy...
     
  4. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    Lady. I don't take much guff especially after jerky he was.
     
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  5. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    Well I got the coin back from PCGS, good news and bad news. Good news it is real and grades at VF30 which is higher than what I bought it for. Bad news I have to send it back to have it reholdered cuz they put the coin in on it's side. I hate that. My last submission with PCGS I had to send back cuz they wouldn't holder it even though I had it marked on the submission form to (it was a crossover with ANACS). Also years ago I bought a PCGS coin and had to send it in cuz they had the wrong mintmark on the label.

    16168546751121692507459222562568.jpg 16168547237884227132638761686375.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
  6. Scott J

    Scott J Well-Known Member

    Crazy, why would they do that? I could understand a few degrees of rotation, but that looks like they were intentionally trying to irritate you.
     
  7. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    I already filed a complaint with the BBB. I also emailed PCGS customer service but I probably won't get a response. You're right I think it was blatant.
     
    Scott J likes this.
  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    It was probably in the right position when they put it in the holder. Sometimes the coin rotates in the holder. I have had them turn after I put the slab in a slab box, put the box in a briefcase, put the briefcase in the trunk of a car and driven home on smooth roads. This is one problem the GPGs have not fixed.
     
  9. markr

    markr Active Member

    I've had coins rotate. If you tap them against something semi-soft (I use my knee...ouch!) enough the coin will rotate around so it's where you want it. On the PCGS boards, others have reported success rotating the coin using an electric toothbrush held against the side of the slab.

    Because coins can rotate after they are sealed, I sincerely doubt it was deliberate. And if I can take care of it myself, which I can, I'd much rather do so than send it back to PCGS.

    Mark
     
  10. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    I don't collect Morgans or study them closely. I am interested in learning something from this thread. Several experienced members were certain that the coin in the o.p. was fake. Only John Milton posted reasons. Assuming that PCGS is correct that it is genuine, how did all of you conclude with such certainty that it was fake? How do you avoid coming to such erroneous conclusions in the future? What can we learn from this?
     
  11. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

  12. Mike Thornton

    Mike Thornton Learning something everyday.

    I'm on the side of fake. I would expect more wear on the rims for the overall condition. They are the higher points. And the date looks to be a different font.

    Here's my raw one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  13. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    How often does PCGS err in grading
     
  14. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    I think the problem is with authenticity, not the grade.
     
  15. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    I dunno...not so sure. We'll see. Will just say this: Have seen higher/lower rims in places for various reasons on genuine examples...also slight/subtle variations in date numbers/positions. Appreciate the genuine example posted, but is much more clear and less-worn than the so-called "fake" which might account for certain anomalies or appearances. Will agree with one comment: "if it's fake it's a good one."
    Actually, that's pretty decent considering it's been two years since you bought it. As far as asking for opinions, I don't see any issue there...IMO...not much different than asking to guess the grade either before of after getting it, and then to reveal. It's interesting to see, either way.
     
  16. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Yes, but I think that's what he meant.
     
  17. Mike Thornton

    Mike Thornton Learning something everyday.

    Here's my raw one. Considering sending it in. I'm thinking mid to high AU
    1899-vert.jpg
     
    Southernman189 likes this.
  18. Southernman189

    Southernman189 Well-Known Member

    getting more and more nervous about buying ANY online coins now. Fakes are getting more exact, ruining a good hobby. I saw a man at the flea mkt "Chiping out" arrow heads for selling "copy" Indian arrow heads. So be careful what you buy
     
    Numiser likes this.
  19. Rushmore

    Rushmore Coin Addict

    Ok so how often do they err in authencity.

    For grading I bought it as F12 and PCGS grades this at VF30.
     
  20. Southernman189

    Southernman189 Well-Known Member

    or possibly call a copy/fake a Mint ERROR in bad judgement
     
  21. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    I see it came back real.
    But have to ask, whoa 2 years?
    OP did you check out the easy stuff?
    Weight, thickness, diameter, manipulation with a rare earth magnet,etc?
    Then the question of why didn't you check it out 2 years ago?
    Fake or not, 2 years is too long to go back on the seller.
     
    slackaction1 likes this.
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