Real or fake Morgan?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TSE, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. TSE

    TSE New Member

    Hi, I'm a new member who has lurked for a while. I'm a bullion guy but fell into some Morgan and Peace dollars. Since I don't know much about them besides what I've recently learned from here and other websites, I had some questions I hope some of you can help with.

    The coins all weigh between 26.4 and 26.6 grams besides 2 or 3 that are much more worn than the others. These few are between 25 to 26 grams. They all sound the same with a ping test. None of them are Carson City or key date coins. Most of them are in very good condition. Besides one, they all look very good to my untrained eye. This is why I suspect I might have gotten taken. Since the world is under lock down, I can't take them to a coin shop for an evaluation any time soon.

    I'll post pictures of 2 of them. The first is a 1921 Denver Morgan. The next one is the odd one. A 1921 Philadelphia. It has an unreeded edge so I figure it must be fake. But it also seems to sound the same during the ping test. It weighs 26.5 grams and seems dimensionally the same as all the others except the unreeded edge has a slightly thicker rim, almost like a high relief coin would.

    These coins are all from 4 out of the 5 mints that produced Morgans. As I said, all but CC. Some seem so exceptional that it is hard to believe my luck. I see the tiny M on both the front neck and back ribbon very clearly. I assume this might be harder for fakers to get crisp.

    Any thoughts from the crowd? Fakes get better every year I suppose. This must be a difficult hobby as a result. Thank you for any feedback. I might post other examples later if there is any interest or for further clarification if anyone thinks it necessary. And that hasn't even touched the other half that are peace dollars.

    Attached Files:

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  3. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Welcome to CoinTalk! :happy: Both look fake to me, especially on the reverse! :D And that smooth edge, yes, just like you said! ;)
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  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    I would presume that the non-reeded edge is a fake.

    But both pieces look okay at first glance.

    but, hey I wear glasses.
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  5. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    The weights alone are an indicator. The specs for these coins were 26.73 grams + or - 0.097 gram. So the low end should not weigh less than 26.72 grams.
  6. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    From photos they look fine but the non reeded edge scares me.

    Welcome to CT.
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  7. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Is that some (faint) reeding below the date that I see on the image of the edge? To the left of that, it looks like the edge has been scraped to remove the reeded edge.

    The 1921's may very well be authentic because this year wasn't struck under the same conditions as the years 1878-1904. ~ Chris
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  8. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    The weight variance tolerance is 26.633-26.827. (26.73 +/- .097g)
    The edge should be reeded.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  9. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    First impression is they're genuine. There is other rim damage aside from the missing reeding - could have been worked on to put it in a bezel or something. MHO.
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  10. TSE

    TSE New Member

    Good catch. There are marks there. I can't pick them up with a fingernail, but I see them. This one aside, I sure hope at least the others are real. I have a new caliper on the way since I couldn't find my old one.

    I'd like to put them on a machine (whatever it's called) to check authenticity. As I said, some of them are flat gorgeous. Also, assuming I have at least one real one and it has a specific ring tone, wouldn't it be unlikely (or impossible) for a fake to have the exact same pitch? I'm not worried about weights. They appear to be correct, despite the specific weight given by a previous poster that doesn't seem to account for *any* wear.

    Regardless thanks for answers and opinions. Please keep them coming if you have anything to chime in.
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  11. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I think you are referring to an XRF Analyzer that metallurgists and some jewelers use to determine the composition. You might find a coin dealer that has one, but they are expensive and I don't know what they would charge for their use.
    ~ Chris
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  12. TSE

    TSE New Member

    Looking closer for a while, the smooth edge one seems to have been sanded down. I'll measure by the weekend..
  13. TSE

    TSE New Member

    Thoughts on this one? Trying really hard to get a clear picture. Got a better one of the back than the front.

    Attached Files:

  14. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Can you get a sharper pic of the date?
  15. TSE

    TSE New Member

  16. BlackberryPie

    BlackberryPie I like pie

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  17. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    I'm thinking genuine. At least nothing looks way off. Reverse die clash. Incandescent lighting would make the surfaces easier to read.:)
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  18. TSE

    TSE New Member

    20200409_160502.jpg 20200409_160520.jpg
    OK, last one for a while. I have a handful of Morgans in about this condition. Under natural light, with my cell camera, this is about the best I can do picture-wise. I'm no longer concerned about fakes. Now I'm curious how this might grade. Any one care to opine? I'm thinking it might be worth sending in to be graded/slabbed.
  19. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    If it looks in hand like the pictures, I'd say the luster is impaired, maybe overdipped?
    I dont think it would grade high enough to recoup the fees at any rate. JMHO
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  20. TSE

    TSE New Member

    Thank you for the feedback, Longshot (and everyone else.) I looked that up as I had no idea about that type of cleaning. It makes more sense now that I got a deal as far as bullion goes, but nothing other than ordinary non numismatic dollars.
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  21. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Not worth the price of grading.
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