READ THIS! The Next Generation Of Chinese Counterfeits Have Arrived

I don't like the rim, the lettering, or the space between the two by the word "Quarter Dollar". Clearly a fake. Overall the strike on the letters looks to be a giveaway to me.

 

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this has been going on for a while look on alibaba you can get any coin from china i saw a seller say send him a pic and wait 7days he can make anything. They even have fake slabs with real cert numbers on them and some of the sellers will sell you a fake receipt from places like apmex to try and prove it was bought there

even made to look circulated http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1964-D-US-WASHINGTON-QUARTER-DOLLARS_60223331887.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1873-CC-US-SEATED-LIBERTY-QUARTER_60222710155.html

 

I'd have been fooled if I didn't know it was fake. I'm seeing the issues now though. Thanks for sharing Matt.

 

Hmmm.

I realize that these have been deemed counterfeit and could very well have been made by our favorite "scape goat", the Chinese who are quite upfront with the fact that they make replica's and copies, but isn't the real criminal the one that buys these copies and then sells them as real?

As for the "Chinese" or any other foreign government that produces their own coinage with their own presses or surplus US Presses, if they wanted to produce an undetectable counterfeit, then they certainly have the capability. And who really knows, maybe it's already happened? It was once said that if the perfect counterfeit coin was made whose quality was so good that ONLY the counterfeiter knew it was bogus, then would it really be a counterfeit?

To me, the "biggest" threat to the coin collecting hobby is all the doubt and uncertainty that is being entertained across all the various coin forums. Uneducated folks take this "uncertainty" and apply it to valid US Coins simply because they do not know any better and do not have the proper tools for making an accurate determination.

One poster said "I wonder how many years it will be before we are all doubting our coins authenticity?"

For me, the answer is simply. UI bought my coins well before all this counterfeit scariness hit the various message boards and will always feel quite confident that "my coins" are authentic. Virtually every coin in my possession is quite authentic with the exception a 2 IKE's that I KNOW are counterfeits and a couple that I have purchased when this all began which I KNOW are counterfeits.

I have no future doubts nor uncertainties for coins I may purchase in the future abd I feekl quite comfortable with that.

As for the subject coin? Yes, its quite good and the only effect that the existence of such a coin will have on the hobby is if the TPG's and professional authenticators are fooled. Coins in reputable plastic have no fear of losing value.

Jeez, look at the Micro S Morgans that made it past PCGS and NGC? These coin have retained their value as collectibles!

While posts such as this are informative and NECESSARY, folks should use the information to "increase their knowledge" and understand that there are people out there that DO know the difference?

Counterfeiting will ALWAYS be a problem in ANY collectible HOBBY as long as there are dummies that fall for it do to their own ignorance. The art world has many forgers and in any big city, you can buy a Rolex on the corner for $100 is you so desire. The same thing goes for Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and Calvin Klein!

Educate yourself.

 

I know people who buy the counterfeit coins as a reference not a bad idea

 

I believe that you'll find with minimal investigation that like ourselves when we tried to duplicate the jet/rocket technology of Germany and others, even though we had Robert Oppenheimer and Wernher von Braun, when one tries to duplicate without accepting/understanding intricacies, inferior results are realized.

Some Chinese business people try to duplicate the "bottom line" efforts of our society, who realize that salesmanship trumps excellence. In a discard oriented society where cost is the primary motivator, the quality is irrelevant.

I've worked on new technology design projects with Chinese Scientists employed in this country, have 2 Chinese grandaughters, and a son who develops partnered technology for Asia. Generally, to a person, these individuals are objectively focused on the "goal", as the average American could hardly understand. A reason why many institutions of advanced learning or new technology have a large concentration in their midst.

If one wants an inexpensive "Silver" high grade cursory examination quarter that can be sold after several transfers for $5 U.S., they will deliver. If one is willing to pay a reasonable price for a product that can't be identified as a replica, they can also accomodate. I have both, and have tested the premier "experts", to only realize a response of "Questionable Authenticity".

I had an acquired Gem+ condition 1909P encapsulated "Double Eagle" which I passed to everyone personally considered to be a grading authoritarian. Not one would match my high value wager offer on the condition/origin of the coin. Eventually the coin was submitted to the premier TPG, realizing QA responses.

If you desire non-detectible replicas of U.S. coinage, I believe the Chinese will excel in delivering same. I believe you get that for which you paid, as cited in my previous post where it's published that the U.S. Mint paid ~$6,400,000 for damaged "replicas" proported from China.

JMHO.

 

Better watch out.

 

click to enlarge

 

but what if someone had a bunch of these and put them in 100 dollar face bags of junk silver that would be a big issue

 

You missed something pretty big.

 

The coin looks off to me but I probably would have bought it as real. Scary.

 

General fuzziness of the fields, especially between the lettering. Also on the high parts of the letters and date. Eagle's breast feathers not correct. Cancerous (?) lump in eagle's armpit (wingpit?).

 

I would bet there are folks here in the US making fakes as well.
It's getting more important to know who you are buying from.

 

Your opinion of those over whom you moderate is just depressing. And your opinion of our counterfeiter is, insulting. But whats funny is, you think he is over there in China, using high tech hacking skills to penetrate the great red firewall of China to get a glimpse of THIS forum; so that he can identify his sloppy "tells".

Are you serious man? Each post is better than the last. I have heard of people "putting a foot in their mouth" but lately I think you found the plural form of "feet".

 

Nice to see we didn't have to modify the CT 1950's McCarthy era rules, in order to prevent further conversation.

Maybe it's better not to start a public topic, if one does not want it publicly scrutinized, analyzed, questioned, etc.

I wonder if NGC and PCGS start public forum conversation topics about counterfeits, only to inform the participants that the counterfeit's imperfections will not be discussed.

I guess they copied the Medium Motto variety. The imperfections seem very delicate. I would have been fooled.

 

One thing to add to the conversation. We don't need to remember the diagnostics specifically either. All I have to do is remember that something about a counterfeit quarter was posted on CoinTalk and then I can reference it like every other book, catalog, or article that I find important.

Who can possibly remember each detail of everything they have ever read and learned about coins? Not many. But how many of us retain a library or resource of some sort to turn to when we have a question?

That's what I consider topics like this. An expansion of my library.

 

Just a couple of thoughts/observations:

If Matt had posted this coin and said "guess the grade," I would bet nobody would have even thought it was fake unless maybe he had that as an option in a poll.

Virtually any inanimate object can be duplicated or reproduced to fool the masses. If they haven't already done so, counterfeiters both here and abroad will soon be able to dupe the TPGs or best coin authentication experts. It is inevitable. Slabs are even easier to fake.

Knowing the pedigree/transaction history of coins is going to become more important than ever. I agree with Larry that you must know and trust the seller.

TC

 

If you notice, most of the things @davidh pointed out are tool marks. Most die struck counterfeits have tool marks, because they're made from authentic coins, and the tool marks come from an attempt to remove imperfections in the die (which were e.g. bag marks on the coin) from the process. The tool marks off of B and I in LIBERTY were the only things I noticed at first, and that only because I was told this was a fake.

 

welcome to the modern age ... =0/