Raw coins vs graded encapsulated

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Rick B, Jul 11, 2020.

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  1. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    If you are buying key dates, you have to know how to spot the fakes, and you had better be good at it. With the Chinese getting better at their crappy trade, even NGC and PCGS are getting fooled.

    Of course most the time, they are certifying coins that they think are problem pieces. Roughing up the fakes gives the crooks an advantage because they can scrape off the tell-tale problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  3. toned_morgan

    toned_morgan Toning Lover

    I agree with most people here... to each his own way, but for me I prefer the reassurance and safety of graded coins. I like to spend large sums on one coin at a time, and so I don't want to spend $200 on a toned Morgan and find that it is actually MS61 and the toning is artificial. Honestly, I'd rather get graded coins than raw when it comes to collecting. Now when it comes to buying just to make profit, raw coins come in clutch sometimes because you can market them up and hype them a bit over what they are in a way.
     
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  4. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    I often get emails alerting me to new posts but when I get here there is nothing new. ???
     
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  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    There are lags in the system. The best thing to do is to log-in here and check the "Alerts" box in the upper right corner.

    I don't want the emails because I didn't want them cluttering up my in-box.
     
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  6. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I believe you're describing a time period where it's believed honesty/integrity/verbal-standards were generally observed in "trading". Today there are copies? (i.e. questionable authenticity) that I've proven when sent to prominent TPG, their authenticity can't be established by "experts".

    I believe the majority here would prefer to buy/sell coins based on logical published parameters/standards which seemingly no longer exist, so we must utilize TPG to retain a semblance of purchased value, above variable bullion/face value.

    If you view the transcripts of a controversial trial, reportedly a TPG representative "expert" convinced the judge of her capability as a grader by recognizing a "scratch" on a valuable coin, diminishing its market value.

    I believe the TPG representative may have been correct, when viewing coins graded by the TPG, often seen with gross scratches, while assigning a "details" definition on others without known criteria for "details" assignment.

    It's hoped/believed that eventually processes will be implemented to again allow the conditions desired for buying a "raw" commodity.

    JMHO
     
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  7. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    You're new so you'll get used to how it works. Just give it some time.
     
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  8. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    This sounds like a smarter approach than purchasing raw coins, especially when buying online. I don’t mind if collectors break coins out of slabs, but please don’t tell us there’s no point in having coins certified.
     
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  9. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Hi micbraun, just to be clear, I never said having coins certified has no point. It is just a matter of what one likes. I'm a raw guy. That doesn't mean I see no point in certification.
     
  10. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    Not alone. I like to buy raw coins and even some currency. I rely on my eye and knowledge to find the coin I want and not rely on a TPG. And, the price is usually significantly cheaper. In currency, I prefer to buy graded ones as they are protected and authenticated, but I often buy them raw also.
    Welcome to CT BTW.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  11. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    It sure doesn’t sound like you’re promoting the grading services :-D
     
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  12. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Supporter! Supporter

    I just have to interject on this as the fake coins are getting so good, that even the TPG are getting fooled, or the counterfeit slab is so good, one can be fooled.
    I just watched the ANA video on grading and was shocked to hear him say that most graders spend less than 10 seconds on grading a coin, and some with only the naked eye. They only examine them under magnification when there are questions or an variety authentication is required. I'm certainly not that good.
     
  13. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Sure, I'm not promoting them. But I'm not AGAINST them. I just am not interested in them myself. You make it sound like I'm putting people down for using them. Nowhere in my posts does it remotely say that.
     
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  14. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    TPGs provide an excellent service to both collectors and dealers. I sure wouldn’t spend $500+ for coins which are not certified.
    You’re assuming that we’re all buying the slab (read: label) and don’t even look at the coins. I collect Bust half dollars by variety, be assured I do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
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  15. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Yet when I bring that up here, and say that these guys need to spend closer to 1-2 minutes on many coins, I'm shot down.

    And still we have threads of fake coins getting slabbed by the TPGs !!
     
  16. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    You must be my numismatic twin! You like Corgis? lol
     
  17. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    If you want your coins taken seriously when you sell, they have to be slabbed. Most collectors won’t judge you for preferring your coins raw, though there will be the ignorant fools who will assume that your coins are damaged or counterfeit since they are raw. I take solace that they are the ones who blindly trust numbers and will only have a mediocre collection at best.

    As much crap as I give them, I actually have come to appreciate their existence with standardizing the market and holding dealers accountable. However, I do not appreciate how much they have come to control the market.

    There is nothing stopping you from doing that with slabbed coins. If someone doesn’t want to learn anything and just blindly trust slabs, they shouldn’t be collecting coins. They will get screwed over eventually.

    People who have no greater ambition than filling holes or getting registry points apparently like the thrill of the hunt.

    I like slabs for only two reasons:

    1. Protecting the coin inside
    2. Much easier to sell at its true value.

    Very few coins in my collection require these two benefits, so very few are slabbed. I hate slabs for the following reasons:

    1. They distract people from the coin inside
    2. They take up much more space
    3. Harder to evaluate the coins, especially if the coin is scuffed up
    4. The grade on the slab is treated the end-all-be-all, not just an opinion.
    5. They promote gross ignorance of grading and authentication
    6. There is no way to access the coin to remove debris or contaminants on the surfaces
    7. Harder to take pictures of the coin through the plastic
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    when you are looking at a raw coin under a good 60W or 100W incandescent lamp, you would be amazed by how much the eye can pick up in 2-3 seconds of wheeling the luster on one side.
     
  19. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Wow, really? A lot of fakes get slabbed?
     
  20. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    I like mutts :)
     
  21. Rick B

    Rick B Well-Known Member

    Maybe some will give me crap for this, but hey, it's just my opinion: I think the hobby would be better off if TPG's never came into being. Yes, there is some benefit to it like you pointed out. But I think the cons outweigh the pros. To me it just feels like "wall street" took over the hobby. What did Rob Gillis say in that ANA grading video? Something about how TPG's came into being "coincidentally" when Wall Street got interested in coins. TPG's are the main recipient of benefit from the trend! Again, just my humble opinion.
     
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