Rainbow Toned Market Alive and Well

I love toned coins
Toned coins,(attractive ones) are awesome!
I do not own, a toned coin, that is anywhere near as cool as yours Lehigh, infact, I don't even own one!
But here is my thought... People who do not collect toned coins, will not start now. If they can get a MS64 peace dollar for $45, why spend $450 on a toned one?
People who do not appreciate the beauty of a toned coin, and the collectibility behind them, well not be shelling out 10-20 times, and sometimes more than that, of the actual retail value
Toned coins, to me, are one of a kind, some my look similar, but none will ever be 100% the same, and even if they are, the odds the date/mintmark would be the same? (IN OTHER WORDS, NOT GONNA HAPPEN)
The toned coin market might dip a little, because people at the moment, might be freaking out, and just getting all the gold and silver they can get their hands on, so they are not looking for toned coins
But, that can always work, as an advantage for collectors of toned coins...

 

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I don't agree that collectors that don't currently collect rainbow toned coins won't ever start. I equate appreciating toning to that of appreciating fine wine. Most beginner wine drinkers start with white zinfandel or chardonnay. The flavors are clean, crisp, and simple. The beginner's palette is just not able to handle and enjoy some of the more complex red wines. As the person experiments with different types of wine, they usually graduate to the complex reds.

Toning on coins is no different IMO. Newer collectors almost always prefer blast white coins that look like they were minted yesterday. As they become more experienced and are introduced to different types of toning, they gain an appreciation for the beauty of toning. That is not to say that a 40 year collector can't still prefer blast white coins, they can. I am just saying that the appreciation of toning and the willingness to pay premiums for toning usually comes with years of experience in numismatics.

For example, I bet nobody here knows that my first serious collection was a short set of Mercury Dimes (1934-1945). Every coin was graded by PCGS, MS66+, FB, and BLAST WHITE. That's right, I used to collect blast white coins in my early 20's. I didn't start collecting rainbow toned coins until I saw this Morgan Dollar in a Heritage signature sale in 2002.



It is the first toned coin that I ever purchased and I still have it today. I paid $700 for the coin and had no idea what I was doing. After that day, I went on a rainbow toned buying rampage. I learned about the rainbow toned market the hard way, buying everything in sight. It was not until I discovered the NGC registry in 2006 that I started to focus my collection and become a more discriminating buyer. I credit many of the collectors here on Cointalk for focusing my collecting habits even more by convincing me that strike is actually an important aspect of grading. However, I still consider it the least important factor. So have faith, the rainbow coins will continue to draw new collectors with their undeniable eye appeal.

 

So you think, that collectors will just start collecting them out of the blue
I, prefer blast white coins, but if I can get a toned one and not pay too much of a premium, I'll buy the toned one, just depending on how attractive
But, I don't see people who have money to burn right now, spending it on toned coins, when they can get same coin, same condition for less
Also, if people are worried about the recession and the economy, they really shouldn't be buying high grade coins, so I can see how more buyers could be introduced to the toned coin market
I love toned coins, I just can't see a bunch of collectors deciding to spend those premiums now, toned coins are hot, but most collectors would say, "I want that blast white one"

 

Not every toned coin drives a huge premium. The monster rainbow toned coins will certainly drive a premium to their un-toned counterparts. But with enough patience and perseverance, a beautifully toned coin can be found with little or no premium at all. For example, take a look at these Jefferson Nickels:

• 1943-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: Purchase Price $30/Wholesale $47

• 1945-P Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: Purchase Price $165/Wholesale $170

• 1945-D Jefferson Nickel NGC MS65: Purchase Price & Wholesale $12

• 1945-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67: Purchase Price $48/Wholesale $60

I think that collectors will always flock to coins with superb eye appeal regardless of whether the coin is toned or blast white. Each has it's beauties and ugly ducklings. The beauties will always be a hot commodity IMO.

PS. All of the Jefferson's shown above reside in my NGC registry sets. Toned Jefferson Nickels are very affordable with little premium. Toned Roosevelt Dimes are even more affordable. I bought this Rosie for $30

 

The Peace Dollar in the OP sold for just under $1,000 (over 25X wholesale).

 

WOW that is a pretty penny!

 

I fully agree with this statement. When I first started collecting all I wanted was blast white or full red...that was my ideal. While I typically still prefer that, there are many toned coins out there that I just love. I have a few in my collection and they add a nice diversity to it. I don't think I will ever dedicate my collection to toners, but I think they are and will become a small (but nice) part of it.

 

I have to chime in here. The seller of the 1923 Peace Dollar (Greattoning) is the same guy who took lots of the toned photos on Coinpage. http://www.coinpage.com/

 

Lehigh, I'll have to get some pics up.
I picked up 3 toners at Long Beach for a good price, one of them's a Jefferson too

 

Oooh! Let me see, let me see!

 

I'll get them tomorrow, since I don't have a good lamp for this.

One of my dimes (out of the 3 coins mentioned, 2 were Roosevelts and the other was the Jefferson) is also Blue -- not both sides though, but still.

I'll post them along tomorrow along with the price I paid.

 

Here we go


price on the flip is what I paid.
The Reverse is just gold, no spot of pink.

I couldn't get pictures of the dimes, they were way too hard, lol.

 

That coin is so cool. Very nice pick up. I am so jealous.

 

I think Rainbow toned coins will bring a premium for a long time , it's just a matter of how much of a premium is one willing to pay , 30% -50% ok , but $1000 for a '23 peace dollar is a little much for me , but then again if I had the money who knows .
rzage
Collect what you like at a price that seems fair to you .

 

While I tend to agree with you, Lehigh, regarding toning being for a discriminating taste, I also wonder whether it is merely a fad. The pendulum may swing back as many things do over time (clothing trends, the economy,hairstyles, etc.).

 

I hear that a lot. The have many problems with the theory that toned coins are a fad. First, I have been collecting rainbow toned coins for 8 years and the prices have never crashed, instead they have either maintained or increased almost every year. Second, I strongly believe that coins with superior eye appeal will always be in demand. Last, the internet has made selling coins with eye appeal very easy in the virtual world. The advancement of technology including both the internet and digital photography will ensure that rainbow toned coins continue to drive premiums. Prior to the internet, most coins were sold in B&M shops. Since the majority of collectors preferred untoned coins and the number of toned coin collectors per shop was relatively small, rainbow toned coins did not routinely drive the same premiums they do now with the widespread exposure provided by the internet.

For example, let us compare the quality of an online photography from 2002 to today. To make it more interesting, I will show a photo from Heritage in 2002 which is the worlds largest coin auction company with basically unlimited resources. Compare their photo to my photo taken this year with a simple point and shoot digital camera and keep in mind that I have no formal training in photography. The difference in quality is astounding. Now I know that many members don't like this particular coin but that is not the point. The point is that this coin that is not encapsulated by one of the big two drove a $450 price tag in April of 2002. Imagine what price it would realize today with my photograph.









The last factor that I will point to is that I have never met a toned coin collector who all of a sudden thought "wow, I really don't like toned coins anymore, I think I will go back to white coins." If anything, I find that most toned coin collectors are fanatical about toning which is what I believe drives the huge premiums these coins realize at auction. Rainbow toned coin collectors fall in love with a particular coin and it approaches the realm of priceless in their eyes. When two or more collectors feel the same way about one coin, watch out. This explains why monster toned coins like that Peace Dollar can realize 25X wholesale value.

This does not mean that rainbow toned coins are immune from market fluctuations and that the market as a whole will not experience bull and bear periods, it certainly will. But some collectors envision rainbow toned coins falling back to very small premiums that never exceed 2X wholesale. That prediction is very naive IMO and not really based on any facts.

 

I wish it were that simple. I have been seriously buying Lincolns for 10 years and have seen the prices go up dramatically and never crashed. However, I will be the last to tell you that that indicates the pendulum will never swing the other direction. I suspect that the rise was more due to the economy, the rise of eBay, the state quarters, and the anniversary. 2 out of those 4 are going away this year. Now let me think.............

 

THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT!!! Um, OK. Cynically yours....Mike

 

Lehigh , I agree that the toning freaks will always be there , but the thing I'm afraid of are the Coin doctors when more and more coins with market gradable toning coming on the market each day , how long before the market is flooded and the prices drop , also the guestion of is it NT or AT will at some point scare some of the buyers away .
rzage

 

The rainbow toned market will crash...

... when people are no longer interested in magnificent coins. Until then, there will be much demand.

Yes the AT thing is an issue, but Coin Doctoring has always been in issue in all things numismatique. We handle it. People handle it. There are always negative factors balancing the positive driving forces.