Quite new but ? just penitrated my "brain cloud "

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Pop70, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Pop70

    Pop70 Member

    Not to sound as ignorant as I very well may be but here goes. Are cuds and or die breaks considered a variety? And just how are varieties determined? Had heard someone mention that in one roll of 2018 quarters they had found 18 different varieties with a loupe, then went on to explain and show were it was that these "cuds" were to be found. Then I said well it has never really occurred to me just what it was the term variety really meant nor who it was that determined such. Somebody PLEASE clarify this for me. Thank you all for your tolerance .
     
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  3. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    Cuds and Die Breaks are called Error coins .
    Not Varieties ...
     
    352sdeer likes this.
  4. ken454

    ken454 Well-Known Member

  5. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

  6. Pop70

    Pop70 Member

    I appreciate the above info for sure and for sure, thank you. So the individual who stated "varieties" was similar to the "cud /die crack" terminology ; basically using the wrong terminology for what is observed, correct? Thank you again. So next, who/what is it that determines the "varieties" designation please. I guess I am not the most comprehensive reader. Things get grey when the hair goes from that to white :) Thank you again
     
  7. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Well-Known Member

    Mr. Wiles for Coneca .

    Mr. Wexler for Wexler varieties .

    Not sure, who's doing Coppcoins .

    All these are variety sites too ..
     
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  8. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Hey, I resemble that remark ;)
    (I'm 76.)
    And there are plenty of people who get the terminology wrong -- even those that should know better.

    My pet peeve is people calling the US 1¢ coin a penny.
    It's a CENT; look at the reverse.
    "Penny" is good enough for everyday use but we collectors should use the correct term.
     
    352sdeer, enamel7 and KoinJester like this.
  9. Pop70

    Pop70 Member

    Well once again thank you all so very much and I will from hence forth stop saying Penny ... never realized that but ah yes you are so very correct. And now I have so much more than I woke up with this morning. Much appreciated for sure.
    So with the what and who; I wonder what would be said about the Utah quarter still unanswered on the strange repeated marking of the spike and if anyone had approached the individuals with it.
    Cannot begin to mention how very much I appreciate all the knowledge here and shared so abundantly .
     
  10. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    A general but doesn't always hold true Rule of thumb. A variety is an unintended characteristic (design anomaly) exhibited by a coin that can be attributed/traced to the die manufacturing process. An error is an unintended characteristic (design anomaly) exhibited by a coin that can be attributed/traced to the coin manufacturing process. Cracks and breaks in a die occur due to their use during the coin manufacturing process - error. A re-punched mintmark (RPM) is created when a second mintmark is punched into a die during the die manufacturing process - variety.
     
  11. Pop70

    Pop70 Member

    ok thank you so much, had to read it a couple of times before it sunk in but now makes perfect sense. once again most greatful
     
  12. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Remember that there has been changes in the production of dies for coinage from the older traditional multi-transfers of the image in the hubbing process and the newer more modern and theoretically "better" ( less expensive in gov. speak) single squeeze process of die manufacture. And the mint mark is engraved directly on the die along with the design ( as all of this was done from computer design and computer controlled engraving devices, so the newer process can not have a legitimate RPM ) and all the mints had to change for the mark was a small part of the code. This has produced problems in the definition of DD ( doubled die) in the 2 eras, as the old well known DD such as the 55/55, 72/72, lincolns was cause by true hub doubling, whereas the so called DD of newer single squeeze process is due to mechanical chatter in production. So it should be called Mechanical doubling, but due to profitability efforts, it is called DD also but many ( and yes I am biased ) consider it just MDD. There is a lot of confusion with many numismatic areas, unfortunately much is monetary value oriented. IMO Jim
     
  13. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    So why does every coin roller say pennies on them. Makes no sence
     
  14. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    That should be "Makes No Cents".
     
  15. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    Because they are made for the general public.
     
  16. enamel7

    enamel7 Junior Member

    I disagree with your statement of single squeeze doubling being md. Md is from the setup and operating of the dies on the press. No guarantee of a repeated design. Doubling on coins like 2015-1c-WDDO-006 are doubled on the die.
     
  17. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Of course you are welcome to disagree, How would you explain how the die was doubled as it only is squeezed once. How does a single turn into a doubled, unless it is chatter ( mechanical) from the single squeezing?
     
  18. enamel7

    enamel7 Junior Member

    Because md is from the production of the coin. Doubling is from the production of the die. I a perfect world the single squeeze would prevent doubled dies. But in that same world the 55 and 72 would not have happened if the process had been done correctly. My point is operator error is the culprit. They have fewer doubled dies at the Denver mint now, but they still have them. The doubling on Philly coins is not flat and shelflike. What do Mr. Wiles and Mr. Wexler think about them. They call them doubled dies.
     
  19. Pop70

    Pop70 Member

    Morning to all, just got off Mr. Wexler's site trying to expand a little of my so very limited knowledge and saw a photo in the different types of doubling. In the class VIII 1999 1cent WDDR-045 ..... this, to me anyway, appears to me, to be about identical with the strange markings on the spike of the Utah quarter. Could some one please take a look and give their opinion. I thank you
     
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