Questions regarding these two NGC certified Dollars.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by LA_Geezer, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    This first coin is probably the very first slabbed coin I ever bought. In fact, I was surprised when it arrived to find it slabbed, so I remember contacting the seller to say that I could not find a way to open the plastic holder to remove the coin. He recommended that I leave it in the case for fear of damage to it.

    I have yet to get a satisfactory explanation for what this Graffiti designation is all about. My records show I have had this coin almost 6 years...long before I got some schooling at Coin Talk. I see nothing on this coin that merit the negative grading, how about you?

    I bought this second coin about a year ago. My records show that I paid very little for both this one and the above Peace Dollar. But what has me scratching my head is why I settled for it in the first place. I would probably replace this one if I thought I could get enough back out of it. I abhor selling on ebay, so I would appreciate some encouragement on other means of letting this one go.
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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Would the graffiti on the Peace dollar be the unusual mark above TRVST and to the right of her hair? Can you give us a close-up of that area?
    LA_Geezer likes this.
  4. brokrken

    brokrken Active Member

    +1 That's all I can see, as well.
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  5. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . . Supporter

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  6. jgrinz

    jgrinz Senior Member

    14.jpg I think this is a VAM-14.
    Looks like a tilted FAR right - Though not stated in the VAM description
    14 has a slanted date which this one does. May see the lower doubled ear lobe - not sure though.
    The other die markers are not visually seen because of the shape of this coin, that I can see.
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  7. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    OK, I do not have the kind of talent it takes to make good pictures, but I do know that you can click on the NGC image for it to enlarge. That might help you.

    Thanks for the help on both coins. I don't think the Morgan was bought because it might have been an unusual variety. Most of my dollar coins have lots of luster, and this one looks like it is out of place to me.
  8. jgrinz

    jgrinz Senior Member

    Yeah figured I would throw it out there. 1899-s are one of the lower mintage coins so there is also that :)
  9. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    I did enlarge it as much as the original image would allow, but it is still not good enough to tell what that mark is on the Peace dollar. I'm almost sure that it is not part of her hair, and I'm also assuming that NGC could not make any sense from it so that is why they called it graffiti.
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  10. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    OK, this time I went to max power on my desk lamp and used my magnifying glass to hone in on that area just above the final T in TRVST. There is a very minor scrape there that appears to be about 1 millimeter long but barely scratching the surface. Could this be a bag mark?

    The dings to the left of her nose, BTW, are far more obvious with the coin in hand. I also compared this one to another 23'D (RAW) in my collection which, upon closer scrutiny shows a bit more wear—even though it cost me $10 more than the NGC slabbed one. I think this is indicative of the idea that a coin with "details" and or "Graffiti" in its grade ward off many potential ebay buyers and may well show why I got the graded one so cheap. The graded one also has the benefit a very slight toning around the rim on the obverse. There is a minor scratch on the raw one just to the left of her nose, all of which prompts me to rethink dumping the NGC details coin.

    I'm still looking for some help in understanding what this Graffiti is.
  11. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Graffiti can be anything. It is not like "road rash" or a "vice job". It is just nonspecific damage.
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  12. NPCoin

    NPCoin Resident Imbecile

    I'm sorry, but NGC disagrees with that assessment. You can find the Details Glossary for NGC graded coins here.

    There would be some scratched or carved letters on the coin.

    What is that on her nose that looks like a P and W?
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  13. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    NGC makes it a point to add....."or some other writing".....which can be considered illegible or nonspecific (as a catch-all). "Some other writing" could be Arabic, Cuneiform, Chinese, Hieroglyphics or some other markings that are indistinguishable.
    LA_Geezer likes this.
  14. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    The images aren't currently showing up, so I really can't comment on the coins per se, but wouldn't a better definition of Graffiti include the word/term "intentional"?
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  15. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Yeah I can’t get images to load
  16. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    I'll take another, third, look...

    Sorry, but I see nothing there. I compared that area on this coin to my other slabbed Peace Dollars that grade from MS61 to MS63, and all seem to have what I would guess is a very slight dimple in the nose above the nostril.

    I think I may have found it, though: three very tiny pin prick looking marks just to the right of the L in Liberty. These are extremely small and barely visible under maximum available light and while using my magnifying glass. This, in my opinion, reveals something about the particular NGC grader more so than the coin. Maybe he was having a bad day.
  17. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    BTW one of the things I like best about this site is that there are so many bona fide collectors with a wealth of useful information. Thanks for being here.
  18. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    The images won't show up on the NGC site for me, either at home or at work. Can anyone post the images here?
  19. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    I get the message to try again later.

    In fact, though, several of the posters above have given good explanations to what might be going on with the Peace Dollar. It has taught me a valuable lesson, too. I should not dismiss coins graded as "Details" without examining what photos are available in the future.

    I remain ambivalent about raw versus slabbed coins, though.
    brokrken likes this.
  20. thomas mozzillo

    thomas mozzillo Supporter! Supporter

    I'm also unable to see the coins. When I click on the links provided by the OP NGC shows the images are currently unavailable.
  21. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    Sorry, Thomas. I have no photo skills to speak of so I had to rely on NGC. I guess they're too busy slabbing coins for Mike Mezak to ride herd over their site.
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