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<p>[QUOTE="R*L, post: 3201575, member: 96878"]A long and boring post without any exciting coin eye candy follows. I’m so sorry!</p><p><br /></p><p>Anyway, I have been reading a bit lately about the role of provenance in the fine art world (eg the record of who has owned the art and where it has been since it was created) and that started me thinking about it’s current and future role in the coin world. </p><p><br /></p><p>On these boards a coin’s connection to a well known collection, horde, or use as a plate coin is generally seen as a plus and in auctions is often advertised by a seller, presumably as it will lead to a higher price. And I’ve seen several people on this board and Forvm suggest keeping dealer and any old collection tags.</p><p><br /></p><p>But for the most part, when it comes to coins, or at least, most low value coins, it seems provenance is generally over looked. That makes sense of course, the time and paperwork involved in tracking the provenance of a low value coin with relatively low margins on sale is going to be uneconomical, and there are privacy issues etc. As such historically there’s probably been no real incentive to record and pass provenance on.</p><p><br /></p><p>But the problem this creates is that for most coins on sale today (from the most dubious eBay seller to the most reputable auction house) there’s no way to know if they were dug out of the ground and/or exported from the country where it they were found yesterday (legally or otherwise) or if they have been in collections for the past 100 plus years. In a world where there is increasing scrutiny on the antiquities trade and increasing bureaucratic creep, the relevance of provenance (or its lack) is probably going to increase. A good (and verifiable) provenance is (sometimes) also a plus in respect to concerns about authenticity.</p><p><br /></p><p>For the collectors out there, in what circumstances do you ask dealers for provenance? When would you expect to get it? When don’t you care? </p><p><br /></p><p>For the dealers, how often do you actually have the provenance for coins? If you did have it (or could obtain at least a partial provenance) when would you pass it on, how do you deal with privacy issues, and how would you respond to requests for provenance for low value coins?</p><p><br /></p><p>And for anyone, what do you consider to be satisfactory proof of provenance? How do you think provenance could economically be tracked in the current market? (Some kind of bitchain (presumably linked to a database of some kind - perhaps an opportunity for places like ACSearch or the current certification companies?), seems logical and has been suggested for other types of art). What would it do to the market if tracking provenance became more common? I.e. Would (the vast majority) of low value coins without provenance lose value, or even become unsalable? Or would that part of the market remain more or less the same while coins with “good” provenance increase in value? How would we deal with existing collections that don’t have a provenance before 1970 (or whatever other relevant date might apply)?</p><p><br /></p><p>Feel free to tackle one of the questions above, or weigh in with your thoughts on anything related (and pics of coins with good provenance are appreciated!)[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="R*L, post: 3201575, member: 96878"]A long and boring post without any exciting coin eye candy follows. I’m so sorry! Anyway, I have been reading a bit lately about the role of provenance in the fine art world (eg the record of who has owned the art and where it has been since it was created) and that started me thinking about it’s current and future role in the coin world. On these boards a coin’s connection to a well known collection, horde, or use as a plate coin is generally seen as a plus and in auctions is often advertised by a seller, presumably as it will lead to a higher price. And I’ve seen several people on this board and Forvm suggest keeping dealer and any old collection tags. But for the most part, when it comes to coins, or at least, most low value coins, it seems provenance is generally over looked. That makes sense of course, the time and paperwork involved in tracking the provenance of a low value coin with relatively low margins on sale is going to be uneconomical, and there are privacy issues etc. As such historically there’s probably been no real incentive to record and pass provenance on. But the problem this creates is that for most coins on sale today (from the most dubious eBay seller to the most reputable auction house) there’s no way to know if they were dug out of the ground and/or exported from the country where it they were found yesterday (legally or otherwise) or if they have been in collections for the past 100 plus years. In a world where there is increasing scrutiny on the antiquities trade and increasing bureaucratic creep, the relevance of provenance (or its lack) is probably going to increase. A good (and verifiable) provenance is (sometimes) also a plus in respect to concerns about authenticity. For the collectors out there, in what circumstances do you ask dealers for provenance? When would you expect to get it? When don’t you care? For the dealers, how often do you actually have the provenance for coins? If you did have it (or could obtain at least a partial provenance) when would you pass it on, how do you deal with privacy issues, and how would you respond to requests for provenance for low value coins? And for anyone, what do you consider to be satisfactory proof of provenance? How do you think provenance could economically be tracked in the current market? (Some kind of bitchain (presumably linked to a database of some kind - perhaps an opportunity for places like ACSearch or the current certification companies?), seems logical and has been suggested for other types of art). What would it do to the market if tracking provenance became more common? I.e. Would (the vast majority) of low value coins without provenance lose value, or even become unsalable? Or would that part of the market remain more or less the same while coins with “good” provenance increase in value? How would we deal with existing collections that don’t have a provenance before 1970 (or whatever other relevant date might apply)? Feel free to tackle one of the questions above, or weigh in with your thoughts on anything related (and pics of coins with good provenance are appreciated!)[/QUOTE]
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