I have quite a few questions about Edward I pennies. First, do threads about them belong in "world coins" or "ancient coins"? Second, how are coins of class 10 attributed to him until 1310 when he died in 1307?
All class 10 coins are attributed to Edward I when he died in 1307 yet the coins of class 10 continue until 1310. There is a clear division in style between 10ab and 10cf, and that division is found around 1307, but all of class 10 coins are attributed to Edward I and not his son. Why? Edward II coins begin with class 11, which is attributed with 1311.
They are hammered but belong in world coins as medievals, ancient coins would be considerably earlier I think. A guess might be the young age of Edward II (14 years old) or perhaps a lack of silver prevented a complete re-coinage until 1310.
Edward II took the throne at 23, and the recoinage happened when he was 5. Edward I did the recoinage.
The fact that 9 years elapsed between Edward I death and Edward II taking the throne at 23 lead me to guess that politics allowed Edward I's coins to be hammered through 1310. Also weren't most Irish mints closed after 1302? Please understand that my knowledge of this period is hazy at best-perhaps some better versed in this period should answer.
I don't know specifically about Edward I & II coins, but when Edward II took the throne, if no changes were made to the coins (since he shared a name with his father) there is no way to distinguish between Edward I or Edward II on class 10 coins. It's only until a change was made that we know it is firmly under Edward II. Much like the coins of Raymond of Toulouse - Raymond V-VII all minted coins that looked exactly the same, and since it was a trusted coin, there was no reason to change the design and risk people not using the new coin. French Feudal, Toulouse Raymond V-VII, r. 1148-1249 AR Denier, 19mm x 1.1 grams Obv.: RAMON COMES around outside, Cross Pattee in center, S in first quadrant Rev.: +TOLOSA CIVI around outside, PAX in center As for whether medievals belong in World or Ancient, that I think is debateable. I tend to post medievals with Ancients because they share similar methods of production (hammering) than modern world coins, plus the lack of countries/states as we know them also,dostinguish medieval coins like Ancients. But I would guess it doesn't really matter - we medievalists are the bastard children of numismatics.
Coins in the previous regnal name were often struck years even decades after the demise of the monarch. An extreme example is that coins bearing the name of Henry II were struck through the reigns of King Richard I and King John and into the reign of Henry III after 1216. Coins bearing Henry III's regnal era were struck until five years after his death. In Scotland coins were struck in the name of William I well into the reign of Alexander II. Far more coins are known in William's name than Alexander II.
I never said they were ancient. But there isn't a 'Medievals' forum on Cointalk. Production methods I find to be closer to ancient methods than modern, so I post in Ancients. Periodization is rather arbitrary anyway so there's no sense making a fuss.
But when talking about Henry III, there are enough differences to distinguish between Henry III and his son Edward, such as the moneyer, that the differences are mentioned and collected as different. Class 10. Edward I and Edward II, there is a huge difference. Why isn't it mentioned? Why isn't it collected as different?
So, what is that change? Is it the stops? The extra A? There is a huge difference between class 10ab and class 10cf. What more do you need? A change in moneyer, which no longer exists? The division between 10ab and 10cf is clear. That division is in 1307. But why is it not acknowledged?
I couldn't tell you how certain scholars have determined which coins belong to which reign when their designs are so similar. I would guess hoard evidence, but I don't know. According to SPINK, the change occurs during the variations within type 10cf. 10cf2 is Edward I, 10cf3 crosses over both, and 10cf4&5 are Edward II. All that seems to differentiate the varieties are the crowns. I'll again reiterate that I am no expert on this difficult series, and have not read any of the books other than the Spink catalogue. But I would also not get too hung up about it. There is a lot about medieval coins we don't know due to the large variety. I just received three books on French Feudal coins in the mail last week, and found one of my coins attributed to a different ruler in all three (each with their own argument as to why it belonged where they put it).
That would just annoy me. Thank you for your input. Maybe I need to do more studies and write a book.
