Question: seen from the back or the front...?

Although still a beginner I am getting more and more experience with attributing coins... ...especially in my favorite niche of the western mints of Constantius and Constantine. However, I still have difficulties telling whether busts are seen from the front or the back (I know, sounds stuoid..)

Can somebody explain me why the following busts are considered seen from the back?

Your help is very much appreciated!

 

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I’ve never heard that term, seen from the front or the back.

it’s usually, left facing, right facing (in the case of your coins), or front facing (head on).

 

Very easy to determine.

Imagine a vertical line going through the ear !

If the shoulder is on left side of this line, the bust is seen from the front
If the shoulder is on the right side, it is seen from the back.

(For busts right of course)

 

All three are seen from the back.

Roman engravers didn't have a sitting session with the emperor, they were sent a bust to work off of. Some engravers chose to engrave the coin like you are seeing the bust from behind, with the head turned to the side. In all three coins, the cuirass details next to the C for Caesar are actually the right shoulder, seen from behind. It's a style thing probably without special meaning.

I hope this can illustrate it better for you:

Seen from front (right shoulder on the left)


Seen from behind (right shoulder on right)

 

It's a very subtle difference, and I don't know why RIC ever bothered making it. Obviously, you are not seeing the back of their heads on the coin, so I'm not sure what they meant by the term.

Victor Clark has a web page about bust types, and if you scroll down you can see some comparisons of regular vs. seen-from-back types. Maybe you'll be able to see a difference; I sure can't:
http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/busts/

 

I still don't get it. Every coin I own with a right-facing bust has the shoulder on the left side of a vertical line drawn through the ear.

 

Just as an exmple the coins Finn posted:


shoulder right of the line, seen from the back


shoulder left of the line, seen from the front

 

Do NOT think of this as a collar with a button in the middle, below the neck:



Rather, it is a fibula at the tip of the shoulder, holding the front half and the back half of the drapery together.

Once you get used to seeing this as the shoulder, it'll become clear that this portrait is seen from the back.

 

Forgive me for being so dim, but isn't this the shoulder here?


Going back to Victor Clark's page, he describes this bust type as:
A2
head bare,
draped, cuirassed,
seen from the back

Fine, I can clearly see the shoulder left of the line. But he contrasts this with the coin below, which he describes as:
A4
head bare
draped, cuirassed

So once again I fail to detect the difference.
Maybe I'm just too old to learn this.

 

No ... that's the midline of his upper back, right below the prominent vertebra at the base of his neck.

 

Ohhh! Now I get it. So this is the shoulder, here:

That makes sense now. Thanks, everyone.

 

Here are coins that are only differentiated by the orientation of the bust:-

RIC 112 Bust Type F




RIC 71 Bust Type C




RIC 106 Bust Type G




Martin

 

EXACTLY!!

 

Great! Problem solved! It is all about identification of the right shoulder (fibula). when left of the ear --> frontal. when right of the ear --> dorsal!

Thank very much for your kind help!

 

The trick is to ignore what you are familiar with -- modern men's clothing with collars and buttons -- and to see this as ancient Roman clothing.

It helps to see how the paludamentum was worn and how the fibula was used to fasten it over the right shoulder. See, for example, this bust of Septimius Severus:

 

Here's an illustration that makes it rather clear I think



Q

 

A most helpful thread! This front/back thing has confused me for years. Thanks to all for the clarification.

 

I've learnt something today!....
I'm off to add this to all my coins descriptions now actually understanding what it represents ...Thank you.

 

Wow, learn something everyday. Never heard of the term.

 

dang