Question re NGC holder - Alexander III lifetime tetradrachm

P.S. : I think, that the COA option would work, pretty well, for ancient coins, because each ancient coin looks different (different flan, different strike, different style, different wear, etc). If the coin looks like, the photo on the NGC web site, then that proves, more or less, that the coin was authenticated by NGC.

 

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P.P.S. : Questions :
Can an NGC slab be faked, in a convincing way?
And does it matter, for the authentication of ancient coins?
Because each ancient coin looks so different, you can check the coin, versus the photos on the NGC web site. Even if someone could create a convincing fake NGC slab, the coin in the fake slab, probably wouldn't match the photos, on the NGC web site.

 

Thanks, appreciate the context re slabbing process and good to know that sending it is a possibility. Ironically, I think I actually like the off-center part in some ways because you get to see pretty much the whole edge and width of coin on that portion - silver lining, I suppose…

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if we started to see options like this - NGC is still somewhat new to ancients and that is a great idea. I’d agree it is highly unlikely that any forgeries would be swapped with COA’s - making a forgery look like a coin in a photograph, though I bet it could be done, would probably cost far more than most any coin you’d be likely to forge. Now if NGC also offered an optional 1 or 2 hour service for a small fee at the time of various sales where they digitally re-verify new photos against old and give an official stamp… that could also be a winner (for them, at least)

 

That's an interesting idea. Myself, I don't think I would ever use such a service. Usually, I can tell pretty easily, if a coin matches the NGC web site photos. And it seems like, it would be very difficult, for a computer to do. Like face recognition. Although, I think, I may have heard, that face recognition is becoming an important tool, by certain governments. China perhaps? The USA? I could be wrong about that. That's just something, I think, I may have heard, somewhere. I don't know, how accurate face recognition is, with current technology, computers, and software.

 

I got my first slabbed coin a week or so ago. Decided to take it out, and found the slab to be made out of a plastic with a weird consistency, almost gel like it a way, it doesn't crack and split. Twas a bitch to get out... but here it is.

 

I’m certainly no expert, but happy to weigh in. I think it would be pretty tough to replicate a slab correctly (that a hobbyist would think of as looking and feeling normal) unless you do it on large scale, though I could think of ways in which empty slabs or Frankenslabs from opened ones could be done, but even if you got that right, made the labels and seals perfectly and made it look like it was properly sealed, I think the database is the key here. As I understand it, NGC retains a database with that coin. There’s a registration (if that’s what you call it?) number on that holder that can be checked against their database, and it’s going to be a surprise if, say, your nice “AU 5/5” Athenian owl tetradrachm looks looks a bit better than a silver version of the slugs that were often left when I tried my hand at cleaning uncleaned Roman coins when I was a child (or if it is anything else for that matter). Of course, this assumes people will bother to check. As to your question re it being necessary, my understanding is that there are a number of experts out there who could probably beat out (in quality of authentification, attribution, etc.) most any TPG (e.g., David Sear). In favor of the TPGs, though, they keep archives of known counterfeits and the like). So, no, not necessary, and plenty of people buy through reputable sales channels they trust and know well without any significant issues and usually at less premium. I do see a market opportunity, though, in that people who are new to ancients, or familiar with other types of coinage (or even if the “general public”) could get a real benefit, and I would think resale outside of hobbyist channels would be made easier for folks if they believe (rightly so) that an reputable agency’s opinion (though not a guaranty, in the case of most ancients, for reasons I actually find mostly understandable) is behind it. Plus, there’s the fact that as long as it’s sealed (likely), you can’t do much damage to that coin even without going to storage methods that seem normal to us but maybe not to everybody…). Just my thoughts on the fly.

 

I agree, it would just be optional. I could see it better working in the retail setting. Sadly, very sadly, I think you might be accurate with regard to the rise facial recognition. There is something deeply Orwellian (1984, at least) about the whole concept, if the world becomes a wee bit safer at the expense of freedom. I hope that this is not the case. And end of my off-topic ramble…

 

That’s a beauty! Clearly, no damage done.

 

I think there was a miscommunication, regarding my 2nd question, of these 2 questions :
1. Can an NGC slab be faked, in a convincing way?
2. And does it matter, for the authentication of ancient coins?

What I meant was, does it matter, if an NGC slab can be faked? I would say no, it doesn't matter, if an NGC slab can be faked. Because, you can use the NGC number, to lookup photos of the coin, on the NGC web site. If the coin doesn't match the NGC web site photos, then it doesn't matter, how convincing the fake NGC slab is. Therefore, the slab is superfluous, to a certain extent, for authentication. The only thing that matters, to a certain extent, is the NGC number, and the photos of the coin, on the NGC web site. The NGC authentication service is valuable, because of the photos of the coin, on the NGC web site.

 

All of my above post # 50, only applies to ancient coins, because each ancient coin looks so different (different flan, different strike, different style, different wear, etc). On the other hand, modern US coins of the 20th century (uncirculated Morgan dollars, etc), for example, are a different story. Unless the NGC web site photos, could be very high resolution, I guess (but perhaps too expensive to do that).

 

Ahh, sorry - I see the interchange now and was using a phone. I think in that case we are effectively getting to the same point. So, in a word - agreed! And yes, especially with ancients. With that said, even with modern coins (designed for circulation, not proofs and the like) they are all technically unique. I bet (without actually knowing much about this type of thing), it would be possible to identify a few very small “fingerprint” (figuratively, as in unique identifier, not as in the kind that results from the guy who smushes his Cheeto-covered thumb on a proof and then puts it away for 20 years) differences and scuffs of the coin that wouldn’t be reproduced right in a different coin. Who knows…

 

Like a lot of people, I don't like slabs. I want to have options about how I can store coins - currently i have a nice Victorian era mahogany coin cabinet. The only way to store slabs is in a pile, it's not great aesthetically.

 

That coin cabinet sounds nice.
There are coin cases, and coin trays, for slabs. Here is an example.
https://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/lighthouse-quattro-deluxe-presentation-case-32-slabs-black
There are also coin boxes, for slabs. Here are some examples.
https://www.thecoinsupplystore.com/collections/coin-slab-boxes
However, like you, I prefer not to have my ancient coins in slabs. I like to hold the bare ancient coins in my hands. Also, I like to be able to look at the edge of each ancient coin. Also, it's easier to take good photos of ancient coins, if they are not in slabs. Also, I like to arrange my ancient coins, close together, so that I can look at many ancient coins at once. Also, I like to take group photos of my ancient coins, with the coins close together. Also, I can see the ancient coins better, if they are not in slabs. I keep my ancient coins in coin cases and velvet coin trays.