Question re: 1895-O CH AU Morgan

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Those two auctions, not only have the same coin, but the same pics. So somethings not right. Can you post your pics of the coin?

 

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Well it must be Halloween someplace.

Jim

 

Welcome, new guy.

My thoughts are: That coin ain't choice, and it ain't AU either. PASS!

 

I'll post pics; and my, oh my, how collecting has changed.

I'll post pics tomorrow of: the coin with as much detail as i can muster; and two comparative coins, one of which is a replica.

I'd be interested in reactions regarding the coin and it's auction history.

It's been a long time since I've been active in collecting.

Brave New World, isn't it?

 

Sure, it ain't Ch AU, but...

...if it's authentic, does anyone think maybe... just maybe... it's a $282 bargain??

:crying:

 

So, none of you guys...

...has a replica 1895-O?

Or enough experience to conjecture in more detail on authenticity??

I have a 1895-O replica.

Just for this purpose.

I'm not yet expert enough to reach a definitive conclusion.

Though I'm learning fast.

:headbang:

 

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

You can be Strother Martin just as long as I'm not on the receiving end like Cool Hand Luke was when he's being beaten silly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strother_Martin

While Luke was getting the ever loving poop beaten out of him Strother also told him:

" you gotta get your mind right."

Of course, this was necessary in order to effectively "communicate" to Luke the importance of Strother's message...

 

The images of the coin appear to show criss-crossing hairlines all over the fields, esp. on the reverse. I don't find it attractive.

 

cleaned & retoned or Chinese replica?

I agree. I think it looks like it was cleaned then artificially toned.

However, once I post the pics of the actual coin along with the Chinese replica, I think it's hard not to wonder whether it's a fake.

To me, it's a spitting image of the replica.

Or the Chinese replica is so good it can't be distinguished from the Real McCoy.

Any thoughts about the pending auction for an item I still have in my possesion?

 

Without reading the other replies first...

My thoughts are that if you buy an uncertified coin for several hundreds of dollars on Ebay, you are trying to defy huge odds against you. And you stand an excellent chance of ending up with an over-graded coin and/or paying too much money for it. Many buyers think that they are the special ones who can beat the odds, but few of them do.

 

buying sight unseen

Like many here on this forum, I'll use my own judgement and take my chances based upon what is legally required to be a true depiction and description of an item up for auction in the biggest auction house in the world.

Especially when I have an unquestioned right of return via PayPal which is further backed up by paying for it with my own reputable credit card.

Anyone who ever buys a raw or even "certified" coin without examining it in person is effectively trying to "beat the odds" re: getting a "deal."

And there are plenty of PCGS, NGC and ANACS "certified' coins for sale on eBay and elsewhere that aren't certified at all. Fake slabs are even cheaper to make than fake coins.

If someone buys only coins they've examined in person, they're not only dealing with a limited universe of possiblities, they probably don't own stocks, either.

They're also more likely to not drink floridated water and may have problems deciding on whether to turn left or right, too.

Always remember:

" just 'cause it's slabbed don't make it real..."

 

I would never buy it, reason the seller lists no returns as part of the agreement. Not that I would ever buy something with the intent of returning it, but sometimes you see things with the coin in your hand that you miss on pictures.

The grade imo is not au, it is possibly an ef.

I would like one sometime, to give my 1895-s a companion, but I will wait to see one in person.

 

Although it does not look AU to me, that would not worry me as much as

This guy does not accept PayPal. He only accepts credit cards.

 

Wrongo

Wrongo.

I bought it via PayPal; and the Seller has said he's willing to take it back.

He has to: PayPal would make him. All I've got to do is have proof of return.

I've made tens of thousands of dollars of purchases this year via PayPal because of that feature.

Plus Discover and most other reputable credit cards will back you up on this as well.

BTW, so far as I can tell, the Seller is listing it in "anticipation" of my returning it.

 

The largest auction house in the world has its problems. Listings of fake designer goods and if you read the coin talk forums, numerous examples of
misrepresented coins and transactions that went bad.

If you're going to deal with auction houses, there a number of well-respected ones that specialize in coins and are cognizant that their credibity with coin collectors depends on trust, honesty and quality merchandise.

Having said that, there are forum members that have had good experiences buying coins on E-bay. They tend to be more experienced and most of them bought a few bad coins while accumulating their body of knowledge. This is called "paying your dues".

Your statement that "If someone buys only coins they've examined in person, they're not only dealing with a limited universe of possiblities, they probably don't own stocks, either." I'm not sure how you jump to this conclusion based on a collector's preference such as myself for buying coins that I'm able to personally examine.

In my case, I've worked for an investment firm for 10 years. Obviously, I've done a fair amount of trading over that time. In the investment community as in the coin community there are varying degrees of analysis done by individuals before they buy. Some do it based only on what a friend said. Some investors (including some very successful money managers) insist on visiting the company they are considering investing in. For each individual, there is a comfort level before they pull the trigger to buy.

 

eBay; risk tolerance; & experience

You make some good points.

My orginal post regarding people adverse to eBay auctions was not meant to inflame, but simply to illustrate each person has their own individual level of risk aversion i.e., a risk acceptable to me may not be acceptable to you.

However, I don't accept the premise that only fools buy raw coins on eBay.

eBay wouldn't work if it's perceived to be a rigged game manipulated by crooked sellers. If eBay was a rigged game or crooked crap shoot for coin sales & purchases it would collapse; yet it is the biggest auction house for coins in the world, and its coin auction sales greatly exceed the aggregate total of all other worldwide auctions/ sales of coins each year.

Indeed, a substantial number of major buyers and sellers in the US trade on eBay and monitor eBay sales.

Certainly there are crooked sellers that appear on eBay.

But "The Bay" does a pretty good job of quickly weeding out problem sellers once they become aware of them.

They have to; eBay via PayPal has substantial exposure on billions of dollars of transactions.

How do they find the crooks?

A fair number are discovered by their security monitoring staff through a sophisticated screening process. But most are discovered via eBay members who alert them to potential & actual bogus auctions.

How do I know all this?

Since I've conducted well over a hundred thousand dollars of activity on eBay (mostly purchases) I'm a member of the eBay Voices program. A few years ago I was invited to the Big House in San Jose for two days and was shown how they monitor auctions.

In fact, I just directed eBay to a thread on this forum that describes a recent eBay auction between a crooked eBay buyer and crooked eBay seller.

Yes, eBay is very much a Caveat Emptor environment that is predicated upon a knowledgeable buyer who's capable of researching not only the item being auctioned but the track record of the Seller.

It epitomizes the expression "if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen."

But many people are surprised when they discover that eBay has more detailed guides on how to buy coins safely than a lot of authoritative books on the subject.

As a final observation, I was pleased to see you state " I've worked for an investment firm for 10 years. Obviously, I've done a fair amount of trading over that time..." followed by some wise advice re: investing.

I've been enforcing the federal securities laws for over 32 years myself and agree with those points wholeheartedly.

I need to stop posting dialogue and take some pics of the the 1895-O Morgan and the replica & post them.

Bart

:thumb:

 

Whoever this seller is, they cannot properly grade! If that's an AU, I have some MS coins to sell you.

 

At least you did the smart thing Bart and asked first!

 

run forrst run!!

 

There' s a big difference between knowing how to grade properly and doing so when selling. The seller might be an excellent grader.