Question on Regnal Year of Egyptian 'Radiate bust Trajan' Tet - Bust of Zeus reverse

Well I have this Silver/Billon Tetradrachm from Alexandria of Emperor Trajan (98 - 117 AD), and I have just a few questions..... My first and foremost important question is whether anyone can make out the numeral in the upper right hand field of the reverse, (the side with the bust of Zeus), the Regnal Year numeral ? It is a bit off the flan and I cannot tell what Greek letter/numeral it is, and was hoping that someone on here could tell from what is visible..... I will try taking some more photos soon as well if no one can tell from this shot.

My second question, on the obverse, I have only ever seen a crescent beneath and in front of the chin of Trajan, this appears to be a star..... is this a well known style? the star in front of the chin I mean?


Also the Radiate bust..... that is something I have never seen on a Trajan Tetradrachm of Alexandria Egypt...... so.... any thoughts on that?

Those are pretty much my only questions, and I will work on some better pics this week as well.... I just hope someone can tell me what Regnal Year it is by looking at the partially cut off letter/numeral on the reverse.


It is a beautiful coin IMO and a truly wonderful portrait of Zeus. I also very much like the radiate bust of Trajan, I think it looks great and you don't see it too often.


Speaking of the bust of Zeus, I have one final question.... is that a cornucopia to the left of Zeus right below the ' L '? or, if not, then what is that on the left side of the reverse there below the ' L ' ?

Muchas Gracias!

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Info on coin:

Roman Empire
Emperor Trajan (98 - 117 AD)
Tetradrachm from the mint at Alexandria, Egypt.

(titles in Greek)
obv: Radiate bust of Trajan facing right, star slightly below and in front of chin.
rev: Diademed and draped bust of Zeus facing right.

Weight: 13.04 Grams
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Hi rexesq,

According to Emmet's "Alexandrian coins", this type of tetradrachm depicting Zeus bust on reverse occurs for years 15, 16, 18, 19 and 20. IMHO it's likely to be a K that we partially see at the top right making it a year 20 (AD 116-117).
15 should be LIE, 16 would be LIS, 18 LIH and 19 LIΘ. I don't think that what we see has any chance being a I

Best
Q

BTW, Zeus bust is very pleasant

 

Gracias!!!!! Radiate bust question.....

Very good!!! Thank you so much for your help Cucumbor!
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I agree, the part that is visible does look like a ' K ' And like you said, all the other numerals for the years this coin was struck look quite different, so I think it is Regnal Year 20, 116 - 117 AD like you said.... very good to know. Thanks for all the info on when this type was struck and everything.....

Also, does this specific type usually have a Radiate Bust of Emperor Trajan? Because that is something I have never seen on any Tetradrachmai of Trajan myself. Or are they normally Laureate busts for this type ? I have a year 5 Trajan tet from Alexandria with the eagle reverse, and it has one of the types of busts I most often see on these Alexandria types of Trajan.
So can you tell me anything about that? Is this a possibly rare issue because of the Radiate bust or were all of this type struck like that? That is my main question.....

Again thanks for all your help mate, it is much appreciated!!
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I include a pic of my other Trajan Alexandria Tet with the eagle reverse, and a nice clear date.... also looks like good silver...... I love the eagle tets like this one and the ones struck by Hadrian and Nero where the eagle has his wings closed and is standing facing one way.... very similar to the style used by the Ptolemies.
I need to take new pics of both of these tets..... I will post the pics in this thread when I do.... probably in a day or so.
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*P.S. : also something I noticed.... if the Zeus tet is from year 20, 116/117 AD, then it is from Trajan's last year, or second to last year of reign.... kinda interesting....

**P.P.S: Also any word on what that thing is below the ' L ' on the reverse? The thing just to the left of Zeus? Is it a cornucopia? That's what it looks like to me... but I don't know why it would be there since it has nothing to do with Zeus...... I don't know.... Anyone?

 

A really nice coin, indeed. I will defer to the numismatists on this one.

Interestingly, I had heard that there were Trajan coins with the radiate bust. (As you guys know better than me, the radiate head was more common in the third century with a close association with the god Sol.)

I thought, however, that they were all from the East to reflect the influence of the bizarre religious cults (Mithraism, Christianity, etc). :smile
Then, I saw these two coins from Rome:



RIC 385, C 595 Dupondius Obv: IMPCAESNERVATRAIANAVGGERMPM - Radiate head right.
Rev: TRPOTCOSII Exe: SC - Abundantia seated left on chair made of cornucopia, holding scepter. 98-99 (Rome).




RIC 429, BMC 748 Dupondius Obv: IMPCAESNERVATRAIANAVGGERMPM - Radiate head right.
Rev: TRPOTCOSIIIIPP Exe: SC - Abundantia seated left on chair formed of two cornucopiae, holding scepter. 101-102 (Rome).


Are there any earlier coins with the Imperial portrait with the radiate bust?

All images and attributions from wildwinds.com:

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/trajan/t.html

I hope to find time to do more research on this subject.


guy

 

It does look like a cornucopia to my eye. (Photo of a coin from Augustus)




Augustus Denarius. Spanish mint, 18-16 BC. Bare head right / Capricorn flying right with cornucopiae & rudder on globe, AVGVSTVS below. RIC 126.

guy

 

I have seen Radiate bust portraits of Augustus used on coins struck by Tiberius, I don't know how much earlier than that they were used though.

Also Bart, as far as the Radiate bust goes, prior to it's widespread use on Silver Antoninianii in the third century and on, the radiate bust was widely used on Bronze Dupondii from the Rome Mint, signifying it's worth as two ases. Other than that I am not too sure about it's use on earlier Roman coins. I know that on Greek coins the God Helios often had a Radiate crown.....but I really know little of Greek coinage.
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Thank you, I agree, I think it is a cornucopia, I am going to check other listings of similar coins and see what they describe it as.
BEAUTIFUL Augustus Denarius, very nice coin you have there! I love capricorns, and that is one impressive bust of Augustus.... I love it!
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I found this one on FORVM as a 'Sold coin', closest to mine I could find..... but I don't see the cornucopia thing behind Zeus and under the 'L' on the reverse.....

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ca...9&fld=http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins/


I also found this one, another Radiate bust of Trajan and bust of Zeus on the reverse, yet again I cannot find the cornucopia looking thing like on my example....

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ca...&fld=http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/

 

Looks like it to me as well.

I've seen radiate on some republican coins, but on Sol. And sorry, I had to post this

 

found this.

http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=212717

Trajan, 25 January 98 - 8 or 9 August 117 A.D., Roman Provincial Egypt

2462. Billon tetradrachm, Milne 763, aVF/VF, Alexandria mint, 12.49g, 24.1mm, 45°, 29 Aug 115 - 28 Aug 116 A.D.; obverse AVT TPAIAN API CEB ΓEPM ΔAKIK ΠAR, radiate head right, star before; reverse bust of Nilus right, lotus bud and cornucopia by right shoulder, L I-Q (= regnal year 19 = 115/116 A.D.) across fields

 

I thought you might post that one Randy , perfect illustration to what I was saying about the coins of Augustus with a Radiate bust struck under Tiberius
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Hmmmm that is very interesting Randy. Could it be that the coin I bought was mislabeled, and the reverse portrait is actually Nilus? I certainly hope not, I really really wanted one of Zeus.... but the two do look very similar... especially in that link.....

 

I couldnt find many examples with Zeus, and just that one with Nilus.


edit:

http://www.tantaluscoins.com/coins/14575.php

Star and Zeus but no cornucop.

and one of Nilus but no star or radiate
http://tjbuggey.ancients.info/images/trajnilalex3.jpg


http://tjbuggey.ancients.info/Trajprov.html

 

Well DARN IT!@%&@# I am pretty sure it is Nilus not Zeus.....
I thought I knew what I was getting, and the bust of Nilus and the bust of Zeus look identical on these coins aside from the little cornucopia...... shucks.... still a nice coin, but not what I thought I was buying, so I am a bit dissapointed Actually I am more than 'a bit dissapointed' ..... I don't think the ones with Nilus are nearly as rare or scarce..... I mean, I bought it because I liked the design, not just because it was Zeus, or because I thought it was 'rare' or because I thought I could make money on it or anything like that, but I did REALLY want one of these tets with Zeus on it. Shame....

 

might wana ask on Forvm :/

 

I don't need to ask, I have been looking at pics online and I am already sure that it is Nilus and not Zeus on my coin very dissapointing.

 

Thanks for the info. :thumb:

BTW: Although the coin might be a nice Augustan denarius...it isn't mine. The image is from wildwinds.com.

guy

 

Sorry :/ maybe I should not have looked

 

Ha, Randy! No I would rather know the truth, than mislabel it on FORVM or something... Plus the ones with Nilus are cool, and look about IDENTICAL to those of Zeus except the cornucopia and Nilus is wearing 'reeds and a lotus ' in his hair, heh... I don't know what Zeus is wearing, but most examples of both are worn and one can't tell exactly....
if you could compare two perfect, uncirculated tets, one of Zeus, one of Nilus, even though their shape, face and beard appear similar, I am sure you would notice the small differences and details that make them different, like the lotus which I think is off the flan on mine..... but I mean the smaller things, not the big things like the cornucopia.

either way, I like the coin, and am happy with it..... I also have a cool Hadrian Tet I won recently with a Crescent in front of his chin instead of a Star like this one..... it has the Eagle reverse which I so love too.... I'lll put up pics when I take some good ones.

 

Sorry rex, I just realize Iforgot to give the Emmet reference for the coin : it's 395-20
As for the question of radiate head, Emmet records radiate heads or bust for Trajan tetradrachms in years 5, 19 and 20

Best
Q

 

New Tets, Hadrian, Elagabalus.

Thanks Cucumbor, always so helpful. Good man. I really do appreciate it!

Here are shots of some of my other newest tets, one from year 5 of Hadrian's rule from Alexandria, Egypt, with the eagle reverse I so love. The other is of Elagabalus from Antioch.... now it doesnt look like anything special, and it's not in the best shape, I got an amazing deal on both though..... I normally don't share the prices I pay for coins with people aside from close friends, but let's just say, without being too specific, that when purchasing the Elagabalus tet, if I were to have paid with a $20 USD bill, I would have gotten a few dollars change..... the most amazing part is the weight.... the Elagabalus tet weighs 15.8 Grams!!! Heavy! I like them both alot, especially the one of Hadrian, I only have one other Hadrian Tetradrachm, and it is a totally different bust style.

The blurrier less detailed photos are seller pics.

 

Way better photos and killer deal. I can relate to how ya feel about sharing prices.