Question for the Dippers

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Yes it does when one of the points you keep making is how many are red. By picking the TPG population only and avoiding the question you are using an inflated percentage of red coins that you keep referencing that is inflated from submission bias and cost benefit analysis. That doesn't even account for cross overs and resubmissions either. The actual red percentage is very small compared to the existing population but browns are much less likely to be submitted and just aren't worth the grading fee in most grades.

There are plenty of explanations for why a small percentage of mintage's have remained red. What there isn't an explanation for is why the red percentages aren't much higher than they are on dates where turning a brown or rb red would result in windfall profits if it was as widespread as you are claiming.

 

Please stay away from Capped Bust Half Dollars...

 

?

 

coinzip, posted: "Please stay away from Capped Bust Half Dollars..."

@mrjason71

I believe @coinzip is referring to the Capped Bust coins made out of copper.

 

No I'm saying please do not dip Capped Bust Half Dollars

 

Great discussions.

 

A friend of mine threw about 6 pennies around the yard a few years back , and everyone of these pennies turned red from the environment they were in. These were left in the outdoors through sun , rain, and all types of weather . None of these were ever dipped in any type of chemical except what it may have attracted through the air. Just thought you might find this somewhat interesting . great and interesting thread.

 

You don't appreciate @Insider sense of humor???

 

Pictures or it didn't happen

 

@Dillan

They may have been red, but they were not "mint state red."

 

This made me think of all those old Westerns I have seen. You know who made the money? The guys selling hotcakes, baths, shaves, haircuts etc. Everyone else spent all they had looking for El Dorado, and less than 1 in 1000 succeeded,
Soooo, you could do well "restoring" copper coins.
Also, doesn't at least one TPG offer "conservation?" I assume that includes copper.
Last thought, I cant imagine how false a shiny red 1798 Large Cent would look, as if newly minted, in a Type Set. I like my silver to look silver, but bright red old copper is going to look like a replica.

 

Cuprous Oxide?

 

I would stay away from such generalized statements. Some coins, even capped bust halves, need to be dipped.

 

OK...I suppose you are right...there are quite a large number that have been slabbed. I guess I didn't realize it is that many. Usually I see people post percentages of slabbed coins as red...not raw numbers.

The only thing that I struggle with is the idea that a group of people are successfully conserving these coins in some secret manner. The proper dipping process for silver coins is well known and widely accepted. I know of no such method for copper coins. Clearly there is circumstantial evidence of such a process for copper coins...but it certainly seems to be somewhat secret. Not just how it's done...but that fact that it is done (allegedly).

 

It’s not hard to believe that it can and is done on a small percentage of coins. What there is no evidence of and in fact very strong evidence against is that it’s wide spread. There’s to many dates where turning a brown or rib red would be a windfall profit of 4-5 figures per coin. If it was as widespread and he’s making it sound those dates would be filled with many more red coins and they’d be popping up for sale left and right.

If it was so easy as you could do it to any coin anyone who knows how wouldn’t be leaving hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on the table not doing it. It really is that simple too. People that could make tons of money easily with that kind of knowledge would be doing it left and right all day long if it was anywhere close to as easy/widespread as he’s trying to make it sound

 

Why do you care if I dip Capped Bust Half Dollars?

 

@baseball21

I have seen one red brown Unc Indian cent turned to the color of an original "mint red" coin. It was done by a coin dealer in the 1970's. The coin was put through two or three electric baths. I was not allowed to stand next to him but the door was open and from about four feet away I could tell by the blue color in one of the baths that copper sulfate was involved. When he showed me the coin after treatment I told him it was a "joke." He went back in an did it again and this time it came out perfect!

Now to this discussion. I know copper coins can be restored to a "market acceptable" condition by both chemical and micro-mechanical methods. However, IMO, this is not being done on the scale that some here believe. Therefore, IMO both you and Doug are correct - only the numbers are in dispute. Deciding what is "market acceptable" depends on the knowledge of the examiner. I have seen both chemically or mechanically altered coins in TPGS holders. The number of these keeps decreasing as the graders learn more.

 

Some of us care about originality, and a blast-white Bustie having survived almost 200 years without any patina is rather unlikely.

 

Oh, you don't want me to dip (thiourea based!) YOUR half dollars. Is that what you mean?