Question about US Gold coin collecting

I took about 20 of my coins to a dealer I really trust to be evaluated for possible CAC submission. That's when I was told about the putty on three of them. Apparently at first, the putty or whatever the substance is stays clear enough to fool the TPG, then over time a haze develops. I would think that the grade should be "details" if it was caught. I took one coin to the dealer who sold it to me, I told him about the putty and he purchased it back (at a slight discount). I had not considered going to PCGS on the other two. I hear so many things about PCGS's guarantee policy, I'm just not sure how they apply it to various situations.

 

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Exactly.

 

This is an example of before and after putty removal

 

How long does that take to happen approximately ?

If the TPG's had some kind of computerized tomography gizmo that scanned for putty (while also taking ultra-high definition scans of the coin to prevent fakes), that would be one way to prevent the problem.

Of course, if putty does that aging thing pretty quicky, then "dated" graded coins can be declared safe if they haven't "turned" by the time you are buying them.

 

Going forward, for coins that I plan to keep long term as a collector, I deal with Rare Coins of NH. Once they have been graded by a TPG, stickered by CAC and approved by WM, they are keepers.

 

These are the kind of stories that make me hesitate to take my coin(s) back to PCGS. Why do they balk? Are they the judge and the jury in these cases?

 

Great post and the answers are very informative thanks everyone be safe.

 

What's the putty made of ... chemically? Would the "sniffer" detect it for gold shield service?

Cal

 

And....is this just putty you buy at a hardware store ?

And what is the putty being put on -- the entire coin or just a scratch ? That Eagle looked like half the obverse was covered.

 

I have heard that it's the same stuff they use on car fender repairs.

They put it over the marks and then cover it with gold or silver paint.

 

Then it's polyester resin. Should be detectable by the "sniffer" for months or even years after it's applied.

Cal

 

To me this is a huge disappointment. If the grading companies have the technology and can detect this stuff, they should be doing for ALL of the coins they grade except for the bulk economy grading deals that are done on the cheap.

 

Gold Shield is only an extra $5. In addition to the coin getting sniffed, the coin is laser-scanned so it will be uniquely identifiable in the future and you get photos as well. It's a bargain. I pay for Gold Shield even on the cheapest coins I submit. So why doesn't PCGS raise their base prices and automatically include Gold Shield? Answer is so they remain competitive with NGC on basic service.

Cal

 

It was a lot bigger issue in the early days and a common practice, you can even find people that'll tell you stories of dealers applying it blatantly in front of people. It's much less of an issue now it terms of sneaking past them

 

Reading that makes me think that the dealers who know that they are submitting problem coins do so without the Gold Shield. If that's true, PCGS should not want those pieces out there for three reasons.

1. They want to avoid paying claims
2. They don't want the ill will that is caused when they refuse to pay a claim.
3. They don't want the ugly coins out there with their name on them.

 

I think it comes down to bottom-line accounting. If PCGS sniffed every coin, they would have to raise prices to pay for it. This would make them less competitive with NGC on price. Probably, only a small number of un-sniffed problem coins get slabbed and probably very few of them come back and require a payoff. Any loss of prestige because of slabbed problem coins occurs for both NGC and PCGS, so no competitive advantage or disadvantage under status quo. Then the marketing and accounting folks say the loss of business to NGC by raising prices would be greater than what's being paid out for slabbed problem coins that come back. So, keep base prices competitive and let those who want it pay for Gold Shield.

Comes down to "Would the average submitter be willing to pay a higher base price to have their coins sniffed?" Based on the number of Gold Shield versus non-Gold Shield slabs I see for sale and in collections, the answer is no. Admittedly, Gold Shield costs PCGS more than just sniffing because of laser-scanning and photography. But I would guess they would have to raise prices at least $2 to pay for routine sniffing. And there would be a big capital cost to acquire more sniffers and room to house them.

Cal

 

The certainly don’t use that identification internally. Their grades upon resubmission are still inconsistent

 

If technology like that in PCGS Gold Shield can eliminate 99% of all fraud (or more !), then it's a crime for PCGS and NGC not to jointly include it.

Long-term, they're hurting the business and their bottom-lines.

 

PCGS can and does sometimes use whatever tools they want on anything they want. The big advantage to the gold shield is the rfd chip and the trueview picture. 0 percent reason for PCGS to share anything with NGC