question about this Pompeius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Beginner345, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Beginner345

    Beginner345 Active Member

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  3. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    He was probably the son of the Q Pompeius Rufus who died in 88 BC. They had the same name.

    From Wiki:

    "Grandson of dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla

    Quintus Pompeius Rufus (flourished 1st century BC) was the son of Quintus Pompeius Rufus, who was murdered in 88 BC and Cornelia Sulla. His maternal grandparents were the dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla and his first wife Ilia (or Julia). His paternal grandfather was the consul of 88 BC, Quintus Pompeius Rufus, while his paternal grandmother is unknown.

    In 54 BC, he was accused by Marcus Valerius Messalla Rufus of bribing voters to gain the consulship. He was tribune of the plebs in 52 BC and was a supporter of triumvir Pompey.

    Marcus Caelius Rufus accused Pompeius of violating laws of the Roman Senate which he had taken an active role in passing. He was condemned and was exiled to Campania. Also Caelius accused Pompeius of forcing his mother to give him the property that belonged to his father. The last instance in which the sources mention Pompeius is that in 51 BC the enemies of Pompeius spread false rumors that Pompeius murdered Cicero on his way to Cilicia."
    Ajax, Curtisimo, Beginner345 and 2 others like this.
  4. R*L

    R*L Well-Known Member

    ominus1 and zumbly like this.
  5. R*L

    R*L Well-Known Member

    Ah Zumbly - a fraction of a second faster on the draw :D
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Until the very end of the Republic when we start calling the coins Imperatorial rather than Republican it was most common for coins to be issued honoring a relative who had served Rome well. The moneyers were young men with political aspirations who were happy for voters to think of them as potential heroes likely to be as good as their grandfather had been. One of the best examples of this is a coin issued by the young Brutus in 54BC (a decade before he killed Caesar) showing L. Junius Brutus the Ancient and Caius Servilius Ahala who both had gained fame in their day 400-450 years earlier) by killing a tyrant. The coin was basically a promise to save Rome from any tyrant that popped up. How many campaign promises were more completely fulfilled? My example is a fourree. You can do better if you wish.
    Very few Republican coins record 'real time' events or accomplishments by the issuer himself. The political mores of that day would frown on boasting too much about yourself and most men holding the relatively low position of moneyer would have anything to boast about anyway. Roman families tended to use a very restricted pool of names within a family so the chances of your name being the same as a famous hero was excellent.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  7. Carausius

    Carausius Brother, can you spare a sestertius?

    The moneyer is Q. Pompeius Rufus and he IS the son of Q. Pompeius Rufus. This is shown on the coin itself by the patronymic abbreviation "Q F" which means Quinti Filius (son of Quintus). These patronymic inscriptions are an important prosopographic resource in dating Roman Republican coins, because they establish a genealogical and generational framework which can be used in concert with firmly known dates such as a particular consulship reported in annals. The patronymics were also important to the moneyer to clearly identify themselves to voters as they sought higher office (see @dougsmit post above). As Doug mentioned, the name pool was shallow in Republican Rome, and chances were high that multiple men from the same gens with the same name were seeking public offices at the same time. The patronymics helped differentiate one from the other. The practice of including full name and patronymic, as well as ancestral imagery, accellerated in late second century BCE after the secret ballot was introduced...hmmmm.

    Here is the first example of a patronymic inscription on a Roman Republican coin from 149 BCE from my collection:


    Rome. The Republic.
    Caius Junius C.f., 149 BCE.
    AR Denarius (3.70g; 18mm).
    Rome Mint.

    Obverse: Helmeted head of Roma, facing right; X (mark-of-value = 10 asses), behind.

    Reverse: Dioscuri galloping right with couched spears; C·IVNI· C· F, below; ROMA in linear frame in exergue.

    References: Crawford 210/1; BMCRR 660-3; Sydenham 392; Junia 1.

    On the above coin, C· F is abbreviation for Caii Filius (Caius's son).

    Grandparents are also used in patronymic identifications on Roman Republican coins, as on this triple-generational example from my collection:


    Rome. The Republic.
    Ti. Claudius Ti.f. Ap.n. Nero, 79 BCE.
    AR Serrate Denarius (4.13g; 19mm).
    Rome Mint.

    Obverse: Draped bust of Diana facing right, with bow and quiver over shoulder; S.C, before.

    Reverse: Victory driving biga galloping right; A.LXXXVIII below; TI CLAVD TI F AP N, in exergue.

    References: Crawford 383/1; Sydenham 770a; Claudia 5.

    Provenance: Ex CNG Classical Numismatic Review (Fall 2015), Lot 411607; CNG Inventory 735603 (August 2003); Numismatica Ars Classica N (26 June 2003), lot 1540; Eton College Collection [Sotheby’s (1 December 1976), lot 195].

    On this coin, both the moneyer's father and grandfather are identified! TI F abbreviates TIBERII FILIVS (Tiberius's son). AP N abbreviates APPII NEPOS (Appius's grandson).
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  8. Beginner345

    Beginner345 Active Member

    thank you so much for the info Carausius
    Carausius likes this.
  9. Beginner345

    Beginner345 Active Member

    ty doug. very interesting read.
  10. Beginner345

    Beginner345 Active Member

    hey that brutus denarius you posted, just out of curiousity, is that a fouree since its so damn green underneath?
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