Question about the Presidential dollar coins

AJ, I went to Thomas as you said and found this in S1047...

`(E) LIMITATION IN SERIES TO DECEASED PRESIDENTS- No coin issued under this subsection may bear the image of a living former or current President, or of any deceased former President during the 2-year period following the date of the death of that President.

The senate version does not contain the "sense of congress" passage you posted, so the two bills must be reconciled before the President can sign.

 

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That's absolutely right, Dockwalliper: a Sense of the Congress is split into two parts. The House has passed a "Sense of the House", and the Senate has passed a "Sense of the Senate". Each piece can also be called a Sense of the Congress, but it is more common to refer to the House that way.

In fact, here it is for you, since it's kind of a pain to navagate all over the place for it:
SEC. 104. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS.

It is the sense of the Congress that--
(1) the enactment of this Act will serve to increase the use of $1 coins generally, which will increase the circulation of the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins that have been and will continue to be minted and issued;

(2) the continued minting and issuance of the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins will serve as a lasting tribute to the role of women and Native Americans in the history of the United States;

(3) while the American tradition of not issuing a coin with the image of a living person has served the country well and deserves to be continued as a general practice, in a series of coins commemorating former Presidents, all former Presidents should be so honored notwithstanding such tradition;

(4) the full circulation potential and cost-savings benefit projections for the $1 coins are not likely to be achieved unless the coins are delivered in ways useful to ordinary commerce;

(5) in order for the circulation of $1 coins to achieve maximum potential--

(A) the coins should be as attractive as possible; and

(B) the Director of the United States Mint should take all reasonable steps to ensure that all $1 coins minted and issued remain tarnish-free for as long as possible without incurring undue expense;

(6) if the Secretary of the Treasury determines to include on any $1 coin minted under section 5112(n) of title 31, United States Code (as added by section 102 of this Act) a mark denoting the United States Mint facility at which the coin was struck, such mark should be edge-incused;

(7) at such time as the Secretary of Treasury determines to be appropriate, and after consultation with the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the submission of notice to the Congress, the Secretary should declare to be obsolete any circulating $1 coin that bears the design of the $1 coins being issued immediately before the issuance of coins with the design referred to in section 5112(n)(7) of title 31, United States Code;

(8) in connection with the introduction of the $1 coins under the Presidential $1 Coin Program--

(A) the coins should not be introduced with an overly expensive taxpayer-funded public relations campaign; and

(B) the Director of the United States Mint, a bureau in the Department of the Treasury, should work with consumer groups, media outlets, and schools to ensure an adequate amount of news coverage about the start of the coin program so consumers will know of the availability of the coins;

(9) the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the Secretary of the Treasury should take steps to ensure that an adequate supply of $1 coins are available for commerce and collectors at such places and in such quantities as are appropriate by--

(A) meeting, from time to time but no less frequently than quarterly, with a coin users group that includes representatives of merchants who would benefit from the increased usage of $1 coins, vending machine and other coin acceptor manufacturers, vending machine owners and operators, transit officials, municipal parking officials, depository institutions, coin and currency handlers, armored-car operators, car wash operators, and coin collectors and dealers to accurately gauge demand for coins and to anticipate and eliminate obstacles to the easy and efficient distribution and circulation of $1 coins as well as all other circulating coins;

(B) submitting a semiannual report to the Congress containing an assessment of the remaining obstacles to the efficient and timely circulation of coins, and particularly $1 coins, together with such recommendations for legislative action the Board and the Secretary may determine to be appropriate;

(C) consulting with industry representatives to encourage operators of vending machines and other automated coin-accepting devices in the United States to accept coins issued under the Presidential $1 Coin Program and the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins, and to include notices on the machines and devices of such acceptability;

(D) ensuring that during an introductory period, all institutions that want unmixed supplies of each newly-issued design of $1 coins are able to obtain such unmixed supplies; and

(E) consulting with representatives of depository institutions and armored-car operators to support the availability of $1 coins in packaging of sizes and types appropriate for and useful to ordinary commerce, including rolled coins; and

(10) the Director of the United States Mint should take all steps necessary to expand the marketplace for bullion coins, and reduce barriers to the sale of bullion coins, by ensuring that--

(A) the greatest number possible of reputable, reliable, and responsible dealers are qualified to offer for sale all bullion coins struck and issued by the United States Mint; and

(B) all such dealers and their customers have equal and timely access to all new issues of such bullion coins.

~AJ

 

Here is the Sense of the Senate for you all to read, too:

SEC. 105. SENSE OF THE CONGRESS.

It is the sense of the Congress that--

(1) the enactment of this Act will serve to increase the use of $1 coins generally, which will increase the circulation of the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins that have been and will continue to be minted and issued;

(2) the continued minting and issuance of the so-called `Sacagawea-design' $1 coins will serve as a lasting tribute to the role of women and Native Americans in the history of the United States;

(3) the full circulation potential and cost-savings benefit projections for the $1 coins are not likely to be achieved unless the coins are delivered in ways useful to ordinary commerce;

(4) the coins issued in connection with this title should not be introduced with an overly expensive taxpayer-funded public relations campaign;

(5) in order for the circulation of $1 coins to achieve maximum potential--

(A) the coins should be as attractive as possible; and

(B) the Director of the United States Mint should take all reasonable steps to ensure that all $1 coins minted and issued remain tarnish-free for as long as possible without incurring undue expense; and

(6) if the Secretary of the Treasury determines to include on any $1 coin minted under section 102 of this Act a mark denoting the United States Mint facility at which the coin was struck, such mark should be edge-incused.

As you all can see, it does not have the same language concerning living presidents as with the House, and therefore this detail will have to be worked out in conference committee (a joint committee between members of the House and Senate - usually the ones who introduced the bill and others who have particular interest in it's passage - to work out the differences).

This is also a great time to mention that if anybody feels strongly one way or another about this issue, you should call your Congressmen/women and tell them what you think about it. 72 US Senators are cosponsors on the bill in the Senate (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN01047:@@@P), and there are two sopnsors in the House (Rep. Michael Castle of Delaware and Rep. Carolyn Maloney of New York). Any Congressperson will listen to your comments, however, and I'd urge you all to call them on the issue!

~AJ

 

So, What version do you think will go to the president?

The House version with living Presidents on coins or the Senate version with only dead presidents.

My moneys on the Senate.

 

Am I the only one who noticed the political gobbledygook about "increasing the circulation" of dollar coins without mentioning the only method proven successful in other countries - getting rid of the dollar bill!

 

I have a few questions...How many presidential coins will be released in a year...And if they just keep making them, there will be an ubundence of dollar coins...which may cause inflation yes?

 

Minting of coins itself has no effect on the money supply, since until they are in the hands of the general public they are not yet part of the money supply. Coins still held by the mint, or in bank vaults, are essentially not in the money supply, and arguably, any coin a collector is holding on to with no intention of spending it effectively is removed from the money supply.

It gets complicated explaining past that... but the money supply is not that affected by the amount of actual paper money and coinage out there unless there's a very significant increase or decrease. Estimates I've seen is that the total money supply of US dollars thatr is currently in coin and paper form (and freely circulated, not held by the Treasury or banks) is about $650 billion. That may sound like a big number... but not when you figure out the GDP... it's less than 10% of the total US money supply, which is mostly numbers on a computer somwhere these days. Before the computer age the majority of US money actually existed in physical form, and amount of currency outstanding had a bigger effect on inflation than it currently does.

As for what coinage does to inflation... actually not much. The mint mints the coins, they are not in the money supply yet. Banks order these coins for face value, the difference between the face value and what it actually cost to mint them becomes part of the Treasury's account. Theoretically when the government spends that money, it can heat up the economy and thus increase inflation a bit. Any coins the banks don't order have no effect on inflation at all. Coins the banks have ordered, received, and are sitting in their vaults are not part of the money supply until they are issued to customers. But they don't actually increase the money supply... because in order for customers to receive the coins, they have to either exchange face value for them, or receive them as payment from their accounts from interest, or wherever they received their account money. So... the money supply has already increased before they even get their coins, and actually issuing the coins has no real effect on the money supply or inflation.

If this makes sense to anyone or anyone wants to correct me on the particulars, feel free, this is the best I can explain it, lol. But the basic concept I'm trying to get across is that money, either paper or coin, si not part of the money supply until it is in circulation. The mere process of minting coins does not directly effect the actualy money supply.

 

Think that some would for sake of completeness prefer to have living former presidents honored as well, so as to have an unbroken series from the president to the former president immediately preceding whoever the sitting president is at the time of the series completion. As to which would prevail, wouldn't hazard a guess. Political argument of the merits of the living former presidents may come up in such discussions, lol... as to my personal opinion, honoring all is the best way to prevent that kind of thing, since it shows favoritism to none. My preference would be the House version myself, just because I wouldn't like gaps in the series merely because some of the former presidents happen to still be alive.

Would say it's a near guarantee that the president will sign the one that ends up on his desk... as historical precedent suggests that it's very unlikely that a president will veto a bill regarding coin design. To date none ever has.

 

4 Presidents each year.

Yes

Not if they are sitting in some storage vault somewhere.

 

I agree. For this series to succeed it will have to be the only dollar in circulation. Otherwise I think it will see the same fate as the current Sac dollar.

 

Ok, thanks for clearifying everything. And if they are creating this program to let people know about past presidets, and to encourage the use of a dollar coin...Why dont they 1) Stress past presidents in US history class and 2) Stop producing dollar bills all together. Because with the number of US dollar coins that will be produced, the coins can take over in no time, because I heard somewhere on this forum (I believe it was here) that for every 2 Presidential coins minted, a Sacagawea coin must also be produced. So just for instance if the mint makes oh say 5 million Presidential dollar coins in the first year, they are also obliged to mint 3.5 million Sacagawea dollars. Thats $8.5 million each year, for ten years. Over the period of time, thats $85 million dollars. It may not sound like a whole lot, but isn't that enough to cover the number of $1 bills produced? And please remember that my numbers are just examples.

 

Using BEP figures there should be around 7.5 billion dollar bills in circulation. Annual production is around 5.1 billion per year, mostly just to replace notes that are wearing out. Take over time to replace all the notes with coins would be about three to four years assuming a production rate a little higher than that done in 2000.

 

Ok. But the presidential dollar coin series would last for 10 years. Not to metion that replacing dollars with coins would be better. Coins last a whole lot longer than bills do, so not as many would have to be produced to fit the need of old ones wearing out.

 

Sorry, I have been busy studying for finals - but I would hope that the House version ends up with the President, and that he signs it into law. However, as I mentioned before, it is only the SENSE of the House that living Presidents be honored along with dead ones. Same goes for the Senate version. These "senses" carry NO LEGISLATIVE WEIGHT. It's not a law even if/when the bill is signed. All those senses mean is that Congress thinks that's what ought to happen, but they give the power to do so to the Secretary of the Treasury.

 

The Senate version was passed by the house and sent to the President on Dec. 13th.
He has not signed it yet.

 

I've said this before over the years but what is the purpose of honoring all of the presidents anyway? Unless someone is a presidential historian is it really important to know all of the presidents of our great nation or should the stress be placed on those few who defined our nation and made it great.

I am not a fan of the series and for me it reeks of gimic more then collectable.
But power to those who find enjoyment.

 

I think this series would be a wonderful way to end presidents on our coins, and at the end of the serioes, come up with whole new coins!

 

I agree 100%