Hello Everyone, I got two of the 4 rolls of the presidential dollars that I ordered from the mint yesterday and in one roll it's heads-heads and in the other roll it's tails-tails. I always thought that a mint wrapped roll was supposed to be head-tails am I wrong?
The coins are wrapped by machine, not by hand, and thus there's no preferred way of them being wrapped (the coins are put in the wrapper randomly with no preferred orientation.) You have a 25% chance of tails showing at both ends, a 25% chance of heads showing at both ends, and a 50% chance of having tails showing at one end and heads at the other. Also there is not really any such thing as "mint wrapped rolls." The Mint DOES NOT WRAP COINS! Don't mean to yell, but it's a point that deserves special emphasis, because it seems to be a very common misconception that somehow there is a difference between a roll of coins bought from the Mint and a roll of coins you get from any bank, besides the appearance of the paper roll itself. There's not. Coins leave the mint in giant canvas sacks. Private companies then roll them. The only difference between the ones you buy straight from the Mint and those you get from the bank, is the ones you buy from the Mint are rolled by a private company that has a license to use the official Mint logo and graphics. There's abosloutely no guarantee that a roll of coins you buy from the Mint is any better quality than a roll of the same coins you get from the bank (assuming the bank roll is made up of only new coins). There's no reason to prefer one bought from the Mint unless it is just too difficult to find a local bank that bothers to order rolls of that new coin. If you think the wrapper is worth $10, or just can't find a bank that bothers to order the coins, go for it, but otherwise there's no reason to pay more than face value. (I do buy rolls of half dollars directly from the Mint because no banks in my area bother to order new half dollars, and if they have any rolls of half dollars at all, they're usually full of slot machine abuse victims. However I can easily get rolls of uncirculated state quarters as they come out from local banks so I never have to pay more than face value for them. No banks in my area bother to order presidential dollars so my parents buy a roll whenever they come out and give me half the roll after they take out what they want to save. Then I pick the best one for my coin album, and spend the rest.) Didn't mean to rant lol, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people insist that rolls with the Mint's logo are inherently more valuable than a roll with Wells-Fargo's logo; both due to the fact the wrapper itself is worthless, only the coins inside it have value; and coins in wrappers with the Mint's logo receive no special treatment over coins wrapped in any other kind of wrapper (try telling that to people who sell rolls on eBay, lol...). The only justification that makes sense to me to paying the Mint a premium for rolls of coins is that there is no bank within a convenient distance of you that orders rolls of new coins. Else you shouldn't ever have to pay more than $25 for a roll of presidential dollars.
There was a time that coins would leave the coins in smaller canvas sacks of about 4000 to 5000 coins, depending on the denomination. (Back when full sized dollar coins were minted, they would be shipped in bags of 1000.) Private companies would then roll them for sake of banks, or vending machines would just use the sacks as is. But a while ago they stopped doing that, and started shipping them in giant sacks (they weigh several tons and are moved by forklift) instead. If you want, you can still get some of the leftover sacks (just the sacks, no coins inside) the Mint had when they changed over; they're selling them from their site for $8.95 each. Again though, coins have never left the Mint in rolls, that's always been something done to them after leaving the Mint. Also, the sacks of state qaurters, half dollars, Sacagawea dollars, and presidential dollars, you can buy from the Mint are bagged by a licensed company after they leave the Mint and not but the Mint itself.
Don't you stand a better chance of getting an unsearched roll from the mint then from your Bank as time goes on? I think the first shipment to the banks are good and unchecked but once the coins start coming back to the bank they get sent out to a vendor or maybe get re-rolled on site if the branch is big enough to have the machine. If your looking for varieties seems you could be wasting a lot of time with re-rolled coins. But as you stated I am also wasting a lot of money buying from the mint. So what is the the best way to go?
Friend Troodon, I tend to disagree with you that mint rolls are not worth more than bank rolls. The simple fact that mint rolls are the only (to my knowledge) ones that identify the the mint, P or D. For a person who places value on unopened intact rolls, I don't think you'll find them anywhere else but from the mint. Granted, you will pay a hefty premiumfrom the mint and if your intention is to crack open the paper, then I'd say no, it is not worth paying more than face value. Where I bank they get rolls of coins from Denver mint, I'm sure if I really wanted rolls from Philly I could get a buddy of mine on the east coast to provide them. Thanks, Douglas
Sorry but I have solid evidence you're wrong about that... I have several times just gone to local banks and bought for face value rolls of coins (bison nickels, new state quarters, etc.) and they have always been solid rolls of unsrearched, unciruclated coins, every one from the Denver Mint. If I really wanted Philadelphia ones too I suppose I could go get (or have someone get for me) rolls from banks in or near Philadelphia for face value. 40 uncirculated state quarters in a roll from Wells-Fargo are worth exactly what 40 uncirculated quarters in a roll with the Mint logo are, or 40 loose unciruclated state quarters for that matter. The paper roll has no inherent value. I suppose you could make the argument that a roll with the Mint logo is guaranteed to have all coins from the same Mint unsearched, and bank rolls don't have that guarantee, but if you time it right it's not hard to get a bank roll of coins all uncirculated, all same mint, all unsearched (as long as you're talking about a recent Mint issue). I also suppose that you could make the argument that if people are willing to pay more for a roll with the Mint logo that makes it worth more, since something is ultimately worth what people are willing to pay, but I have almost never seen someone trying to resell rolls with the Mint logo on them (people who buy them usually want to open them to look for high grade coins, errors, etc.) so it would seem there's much of a secondary market for them. Still, it is the coins in a roll, not the roll, that has value (Try seeing how much money you'll ever get for an empty roll, lol...). In response to Don Cole: Most banks to my knowledge don't re-roll coins on the spot; any change they receive from their customers in excess of what they need at the branch is sent to private companies to re-roll, which are then delivered to banks (not necessarily the same ones that sent them the change). It is possible to get these recycled coins in rolls from the bank, but if you specifically ask for new rolls (most banks don't have a problem accomadating this, especially if you have an account there) it's not hard to get rolls only made up of new coins. Make sure you specifically request them; if you just ask for a roll of quarters they'll just give you a roll at random whivh might very well be older recycled coins, but if you ask "Do you have any rolls of the new Montana quarters?" they'll give you a fresh roll made up of coins the armored car company got straight from the Mint to roll. Never had a problem getting these from my bank. In conclusion, I'd stick with my original statement... if you want rolls of uncirculated, unsearched, recently issued coins, the bank is your best bet, and you won't ever have to pay a penny over face value. Only if you can't find a bank within reasonable distance to you that bothers to order the coin in question (for example, presidential dollars) is it really worth it to order straight from the Mint. If you're just not confident that you can get solid rolls of unciruclated and unsearched coins from the bank or you can't find a bank that will accomadate your request for such rolls then go ahead and order directly from the Mint. Still I'd say 95% of the time you can get exactly the same coins for face value from your bank.
A few of the many reasons, in no particular order: Uninformed buyers who think they're getting something special Buyers who specifically want the mint designation on the wrapper Buyers who can't figure out any other way to get coins from the "other" mint Buyers who can't find them at their local bank(s) Dealers who want to stock the misnamed "mint wrapped" rolls
That's what I wnder myself lol... Simple answer is some people are willing to pay the higher price because they perceive it as being worth it to get a guarantee of an unsearched roll. I'm not one of those people; I'm confident that in most cases I can get the same coins from a bank without needing the guarantee, only exceptions being if it's not a coin banks near me are willing to order (such as half dollars or presidential dollars).
More concise than I was able to say, lol, yep you pretty much summed up the reasons anybody would be willing to buy rolls with the Mint logo on them. In my case the only time I buy them from the Mint is when the 4th case applies. As I rarely collect by series, the third case doesn't usually apply to me but it does in the case of half dollars.
Three reasons I think. One is, if people want coins from the mint they can't get at the bank, two is, some people just like the mint rools for whatever reason, and three because of the common missconception that mint rolls are better than bank rolls. That being said I do think mint rolls sell better on ebay, mainly becase of the quality missconception. ( Everybody jumped on that question in a hurry!!)
Friend Troodon, please re-read my post, I said exactly the same as you, that is if a person was going to crack open the paper and search rolls, why pay the premium? I went on to say that the only justification I could deduct from buying mint rolls is the fact that the paper is mint designated. The only place you can get designated wrappers is from mint direct, some folks feel it is worth the cost. Thanks, Douglas
