Question about Kointainer SAFLIP Coin Flips

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by stldanceartist, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Just ordered a new batch of these E&T Kointainer SAFLIP Coin Flips (2x2 and 2.5x2.5) from Wizard Coin Supply as they are SUPER on sale right now - about half of what I'm used to paying.

    Once I opened up the package, however, I noticed that the new flips are noticeably thinner/softer/more opaque than what I'm used to. If I had to guess, I'd say they're about half as thick. Not nearly as rigid as they used to be.

    My questions are as follows: has anyone else (who regularly uses/orders these for their raw collection) noticed a change in the quality of product, or did I just get an off batch? Has E&T Kointainer followed the route of decreasing the quality in exchange for a cheaper price? If you've been using the newer composition, have you noticed a decrease in longevity (Do they scratch easier? Does the plastic break? Do the seams come apart? Are they still safe with your coins for long-term storage?)

    Thanks, I look forward to hearing anyone with experience/knowledge on the product.
    Inspector43 likes this.
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  3. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    There mostly used for bullion and short term storage like for travel e.t.c I would advise you not to use them for permanent coin protection.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  4. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    I appreciate your comment, but that's not really the question I was asking. :)
    CoinCorgi likes this.
  5. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Despite not having seen these yet, I have a few comments to consider:

    Thinner is not necessarily worse. In fact, it may be an improvement. The stiffer the material is, the more likely it is to crack and break. Mylar flips are notorious for this, so it's possible that thinning the flips was less driven by cost reduction than by product enhancement. If the thickness is only half what it was before, they will be 1/8 as stiff, and far less likely to crack at the "hinge" where you fold it over.

    The welded seams should still hold up as well as they did before, as should the scratch resistance of the surfaces of the flips.

    Opacity is a different issue. I would not expect the flips to be less transparent if made thinner while still of the same material. This implies that the material composition has changed. I'd be wary of that possibility. I've used their flips for submissions for many years, and never had an issue with plasticizers, but question whether a material change has been made which could be detrimental to the archival qualities these flips have long been known for.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
    Inspector43 likes this.
  6. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Didn't notice the your,for the long term storage question sorry I thought you were asking weather there still safe to keep for long term coin protection in general.Long post do confuse me sometimes.
  7. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    That was my second thought. Initially I felt like it was most likely how everything works - make it cheaper, cut costs, increase profits. But I'm working really hard these days to combat cynicism, so I thought maybe it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. So I figured I'd ask others if they had good/bad experiences with the old/new version.

    Since the appearance of the new product is noticeable, I'll share a quick photo (same amount of flips in each pile.) New version on the left, old version on the right.

  8. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Don't worry, no offense taken. I'm lucky these days if anyone reads past the first sentence of anything I write. :)

    As far as "long-term" goes, I consider myself just a custodian of them until they pass to someone else. Many of these coins (thousands of them) are not worth the costs of grading, and the book values are usually less than $50, so it's one of those "find the right balance between cost and protection, then try to keep them in a cool, dry, clean space as best you can" situations.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  9. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Personally, I don't like what I see, especially considering your claim that the newer flips feel like they are roughly 1/2 the thickness. I think I'd contact the manufacturer with questions about the archival quality, and about how thoroughly this change has been tested against its predecessor.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  10. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis 2 years on CT! Supporter

    That new one, despite being not by the same manufacturer (to my knowledge), seems similar to those I have had the displeasure of using in the past.
    Those seams on the side are awful, and come apart really easily in my experience. Maybe it was just a one-time thing.
  11. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Looks like a stack of 3 flips on the left side.
  12. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

  13. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    They are both sold by the same manufacturer. Supposed to be the same product.
  14. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Something just occurred to me that we haven’t discussed as a possibility. That being that these flips are knockoffs, and that Wizard might unwittingly be selling an inferior product.

    A good materials test lab would be able to determine the material used.
  15. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    It is possible. And the cynical part of my brain asks, "How does one quickly get rid of a bunch of (subpar) product? One puts it on sale."

    But at this point I think it's too early to speculate too much without more information. I've sent polite emails to both Wizard and Kointainer, we will see if/how they both respond.

    At this point I will hold off on the crafting of any sort of tinfoil headwear...I just wish literally everything I try to accomplish these days didn't seem to involve a multi-day struggle and intense scrutiny.
    LakeEffect likes this.
  16. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    I'm ready when you are.

    ddddd, ToughCOINS and stldanceartist like this.
  17. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Tempted to try that on Frankie (my cat) but frankly I’m not in the mood for Death From A Thousand Cuts tonight :)
    CoinJockey73 and CoinCorgi like this.
  18. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    Note: the chin strap is a must!
  19. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Unfortunately, a fairly recent decline in ethical standards seems to have made intense scrutiny the order of the day . . .
  20. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Ok but I don't keep my coins in 3 flips, so I don't care what the clarity is of a stack of three.

    If you lose a little clarity for one flip and you gain pliability that's a good tradeoff, as long as it's still clear enough to be good. Do a one flip to one flip comparison in front of a white surface.
  21. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    I haven't bought SAFLIPS in ten years or more but the classic product was always ultra-thin, crystal clear and slightly brittle.

    Nowadays I use generic archival flips that are sturdier, equally "safe" and considerably less expensive.
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