Question about grading standards for Proof Morgans

Yet cam/dcam and pl is much tighter today as just an example of how that just simply isn’t true for “all”

 

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cac.

 

Yes?

 

Designations are part of a grade. It’s just semantics to try and say they’re separate when they matter as much as the number does if not more in many instances.

 

Agreed, GDJMSP.

It seems clear that once grading moved from numismatists and the coin collecting community to more of the business of coins and dealer needs, that is when the changes occurred. Grading standards no longer served a very small niche community....now it was being employed for Big Business or Big Buck$$$.

 

Yes they are. You would have to literally argue it doesn’t matter if something is cam, pl, full head, full bands, red or rb or brown etc to say they aren’t

 

Guys, don't even bother to debate if designations are part of the grade...NOBODY can agree on that.

Reminds me of an episode of "The Simpsons" where they had the late-night TV talk show SMARTLINE and they announced: "Tomorrow night on SMARTLINE.....Which Is The One True Religion ?"

 

one of the main reasons that your statement has validity, is because of cac.

 

Now I'm confused.....

OK, with regards to Proofs and Saint-Gaudens:

(1) For 1907 High Reliefs, PCGS does not recognize and grade as such, NGC does. Maybe there's a few grandfathered coins that PCGS did or recognizes on some part of their website, but their OFFICIAL position is there are no Proof High Reliefs.

BTW, this is covered extensively in Roger Burdette's fabulous Saints book.

(2) For 1907 Extremely High Reliefs...these are technically patterns, not coins....but they are all designated by PCGS and NGC as Proofs.

(3) There are other Proofs for select years for the regular low-relief, Arabic number coins that both PCGS and NGC recognize.

Sorry for any confusion, GDJMSP.

 

Huh ?

 

what would be your preference, a graded coin with designations.....dmpl, pl, star, etc. from the tpg,
or the same tpg coin with the same grade and designation but it has been reviewed by john and stickered?

 

Well, obviously all things equal you want the additional CAC stickere, of course.

I was just confused by your 1-word answer. Wasn't sure what you were referring to.

Thanks for clearing it up !

 

I'm sorry, but GDJMSP is 100% correct and the rest of you are wrong. At least in regards to CAC. They do not take designation into account AT ALL when evaluating coins, only the grade! I've gone this through time and time again when submitting coins to CAC.

Here is a strong example of a DMPL. I own many, this one has some of the strongest mirrors and best cameos I've seen. The devices are insanely frosty. I submitted this to CAC multiple times and it did not get stickered. Why? It's a weak example of the grade - 63, despite being a strong example of the designation. Look at those excessive bag marks on the cheek (see reverse in thumbnails too):



Here's an example of the opposite case - strong example of the grade, very weak example of the designation. These mirrors are barely PL. I don't even think this coin should have gotten a PL designation. I submitted it and it got stickered. I sold this coin because the eye appeal for the designation was crap:



Here's a coin with amazing eye appeal (hence the star designation), but weak example for the grade according to CAC. Check out reverse in thumbnails, it's even prettier. Submitted multiple times. No sticker:



TL;DR: CAC does not take into account coin designation, only the numerical grade when considering coins for a sticker.

More thumbnails:

 

This is false. Just because you dont agree doesn't change what they do.

 

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. I'm providing hard examples, you're just providing an opinion. And their policy has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with it.

Here's what their website says:

"WHAT THE CAC STICKER MEANS: Your coin has been verified as meeting the standard for strict quality within its grade."

The designation is separate from the grade. It's not relevant to CAC.

 

GoldFinger1969, asked: "Can someone give an example of how market grading overtook technical grading in the grading of 2 large-field/devices popular coins, Saints and Morgans ?"

I'll quote Dave Bowers answer from a decade ago in his grading book:

"Today, such coins that used to be graded as About Uncirculated (AU) are now often graded as MS-60, MS-61, and MS-62."

 

baseball21, posted: "This is false. Just because you dont agree doesn't change what they do."

Just curious...do you use CAC? Has someone at the CAC office confirmed that the sticker includes the designation? I'm sure all of us would like to know the correct answer.