Question about Ancients

Why is it ancients can be had so cheap? Obviously ones like Julias Caesar cost alot but just general coins. I would think with them being thousands of years old they would cost alot more.

 

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In any sizable economy in any age, they needed millions of coins to have a functioning economy, and in the third and fourth centuries AD, there was high inflation, so there were even more coins produced then than in earlier periods. Combine this with the fact that coins can only degrade so fast, and it means that there are many, many ancient coins out there. On the demand side, while many non-specialists would want coins of guys like Augustus or Nero, far fewer desire ones of guys like Gordian III or Probus. These factors combine so that many ancient coins are very affordable.

 

Supply & demand.
Millions of coins out there and a few (well, not really a few but you know what I mean) collectors

Q

 

you can find early imperial and republican coins for relatively cheap on occasion

 

Thats the way i like it

 

Someday soon I'll post on my experiences at the Baltimore coin show but one experience there speaks to this question. On dealer had a pickout box of 'Indian' silver coins for $5. A second box was Indian bronze and also $5. A third box had really low end Romans for $5. The silvers were all bull and horseman types and included at least 500 poor ugly coins and a couple dozen better looking ones. I bought 8 that were different to my eye. The type was made for several hundred years but most people recognize only a couple major variations in legend and next to no one collects them for the minor symbols. The production of the same coin for so long a time has resulted in coins many of you would probably melt. Supply high; demand low.

The bronzes were all from Kashmir and separated only by legends (in a language you probably would recognize) which identify them to ruler. I found 4 I did not have and bought one duplicate since my studies suggest it is more scarce and both coins were equally nice. The number of people who find stylized art from medieval Kashmir appealing and who could name even one ruler (a couple of whom are really fascinating) means that being nice, thick and well made (but not worth melting) does nothing for your cash value. Therefore, $5 (nuisance fee). The third box was only half full but had much more popular late Romans (everybody has heard of Rome). I'm a bit of a condition snob when it comes to late Romans so I only pulled out three that were fully identifiable with full mintmarks and good looking. I can not swear one way or the other if anyone but me bought any of the Indian coins but I even saw some of the Romans sold to other people besides me.

A few tables down was a dealer who specializes in oriental coins. His cheapest box was 5 for $16 and included at least 100 different Indian, Islamic and other coins I could not identify. I only bought five ($3.20 each) because many were later than I collect (I try to stay before 1500 these days; I used to draw the line at 500 AD but there is too much interesting stuff after that.

Here's the point: For $5 or less you could have the option of silver, copper, ancient, medieval, ugly or uglier. High art Greek silver sells for hundreds. One dealer had a pickout box of Greek bronzes for $10 which have more general appeal and exist in twice as many different types as the later Indian material. In no case did I have to elbow my way in to sort through these boxes. I never saw half as many people looking at them as there were boxes even though the show was crowded. Demand is for the pretty and the highlights of history (Nero, Caligula); supply is strongest in things made for a long time by people you never heard of in places you'll never visit. I wonder what will happen to the hundreds of coins I left behind? I wonder how many tons of the stuff the dealer has back at his place? When you see a small box filled to the brim with coins, you get the feeling that it was not the entire lot but just what fit in the box and came to the show.

 

Makes sense.

I have just always been hesitant on collecting them all these years because I with them so old that many are fake. Seems hard to believe that many can survive thousands of years and still look great for $50.

 

Interesting. From the standpoint of a coin collector for 50+ years (only ancients/medieval since 1963), I have trouble with the idea of paying $50 for a penny made since I was collecting coins. Supply and demand strikes again. The old story is that a coin known to exist in only three copies went up for sale and brought no bids on a seemingly reasonable reserve. The answer was that while there were only three in existance there were only two collectors who cared and they already owned the other ones. True? Maybe; maybe not. Believable? Yes.

 

Would you rather pay $500 because of high demand? I know nothing about ancients. But sometimes when stuff is cheaper because there's less demand, it should be looked at as a gift. You get to buy something you want for cheaper. That's a blessing if you ask me.

I think there are fewer collectors just because ancient collectors are a notch above the rest. Few and far between. And I don't collect or personally know anyone here.

I'm just saying, if you have a good understanding of our own country's history over the past 200 years, you're probably above and beyond the norm. Considered a real 'intellectual type' by the average person on the street. So what plane, what level are ancient collectors on? It seems like a lot of centuries of history, change and long names to absorb to me. Probably why so few people are into them. It's just too much. I do think they're cool though. If I see one I like at a show, I'd buy it.

 

I've known a lot of ancient collectors over the years. A few have been what I would term brilliant; a few have been borderline mentally ill. Most are pretty normal people. A small minority know everything there is to know about the coins they collect. Most learn what they consider to be worth learning and I firmly believe that you enjoy this hobby, any hobby, if you know more about it. That is my hobby. Collecting coins is an excuse to learn about coins, about people and about anything else that I find I want a reason to learn. Does that make me odd? Probably.

I have read the opinion that a number of ancient coin collectors have backgrounds in Physics and Mathematics. I don't. There I go being odd again. Many collectors of coins measure the success of their collecting by how much they paid for the coins. I don't. Many collectors stress over the right time to buy and the right time to sell. I tell you to have fun with your hobby and if your hobby is stressing out - go for it.

Opinion: I question if very many collectors of US coins ever think much about the history that accompanied their coin into the world. A few figure out that the Carson City mint was founded as a result of certain economic and political factors but another group don't know who was President that year and really don't care. I would be much more likely to collect US coins if the obverse bore a portrait of a living and current President or national hero and the reverse someting that pertained to the day. I'm not suggesting a commemorative issue here but the real circulating coins. We would have had the G.W. Bush 'War on Terror' quarters and Barack Obama 'Change' change. We would still be spending worn examples of things reminding us that the Berlin Wall came down and that Relations with China were 'Normalized'. With luck we might even see a slick coin reminding us that 'Happy Days are Here Again'. Instead we have a portrait of a President who refused to be king 200 years ago so he had to wait 100+ years before he made the obverse and a national mindset that removing him from the coin would be treasonous. At least Liberty was allowed to sit, stand and walk before we gave her a break.

Thanks to all who don't collect ancient coins. I could never afford them if you did.

 

One nice thing about ancients is there seems to be less rules (or less strict ones) towards collecting.

I'll 2nd that Thogh it is pleasing to meet other ancient collecters (except the ones that jacked up the price of coins of nero, caligula, julius caesar, and tets from athens -_-)

 

i'll second that as well.

what do you mean less strict rules?

 

I can touch my money also I think rules may not be the right word, maybe the "norm" might be better

 

I agree that rules seem less strict. When I collected US coins long ago, there were many people that collected coins from circulation and never paid over face value for a coin. Some were kids like me, some were not. There were people trying to get a complete set of large cents by date but preferred to have fifty different dates in AG to one in BU. If those guys are still around; they don't speak up much. 'Rules' now require you never clean a coin and don't even admit to buying a metal detector find unless you are posting on a detectorist site rather than a coin collector site. You never buy a MS63 unless you are too poor to buy an MS65 and expect some guy in the club to tell you that his coin is MS67. You prefer to pay someone to grade and certify your coins rather than learning to do it yourself unless you plan on becoming a cherrypicker looking for coins that may sneak in at MS67 even though its current slab says it is MS65.

Ancients have their share of people who believe in all these high end things but there are also those who appreciate coins that are a bit lower grade than even I consider collectable. We have uncleaned specialists that prefer crusty coins to be stripped by cruel and unusual electrocution. We have people who never spent over $20 on a coin rubbing elbows with people who have $2000 coins. I only know a couple people who have spent $20,000 on a single coin but last time I saw them we could still find something to talk about. We have differences but we don't all expect everyone to conform to our version of the 'rules'.

 

I still collect us coins like that and the only slabed coin I own is from SGS lol but its ms70!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and heres my CC

 

I would guess that is the SGS MS70 ....LOL

 

:goofer:thats being modest

 

+1 There are only 5 or 6000 of us. But we dont need any more :eating:

 

This is always what I have believed. I just finished expressing this in another thread and I have always taken this attitude which has caused some to object. I hear a lot of people talking about 'the future of the hobby' or attracting 'young numismatist' and I have always taken the view that the less people you attract to the hobby in general, let alone in my specific collecting areas, the better. I do not sell coins so why would I see it as a goal to bring in more competition for those coins I want...I am already a low end collector and even then I often lose those coins I want to others.

In the last maybe 5 years I have begun to focus on notgeld and medals as I have found that these areas have far fewer people out there collecting and often times those who do, are doing it out of passion and do not just see it as a commodity. I can often get a BEAUTIFUL medal for far less than a less impressive (artistically OR historically) coin. With notgeld we are talking about relatively common (but extremely interesting IMO) coins minted in common metal. Few buy an iron or zinc coin because they are looking to cash in but I love them.

Because of money concerns I collect less ancients but the ones I DO buy I try to make them the best examples I can afford...it takes a lot to get me to buy and if I lose a great deal because I hesitated at the price, so be it. Even so, the coins I buy are seldom the best examples but there is usually something about the specimen that struck me as special...probably 80% of my coins have what I feel to be better than average portraits but were cheap because the reverses are weak. Even though it is the artistry that attracted me to coins, I have even developed an appreciation for all types from the most outstanding works to the roughest coins of the ancient and middle ages. I do not collect american or russian coins on average bacause I do not like those markets and how they work.

I love all kinds of coins from all time periods (mostly the cut off is early 20th) so there are always coins to collect and I am not in any way constrained. Today I might buy a coin from British East Borneo, tomorrow a George III penny and the next day a coin of Julian...Its honestly what catches my fancy and I always learn something new.

So yeah, dont collect ancients, they are all fake