I submitted a Trade Dollar to PCGS and was just informed that it was rejected for PVC Residue. My question now is where did it come from. Here's a little background... I'm just getting back into the hobby after a long absence. After pocket-change collecting as a kid, I got back into coins in the early 90's, then stopped in 1993. These were the pre-internet days, so getting info about products and dealers was not as easy back then. A co-worker and I ended up buying a bunch of coins from the major magazine advertisers back then, such as Paul Sims and Coast to Coast. The 1874-S Trade Dollar was purchased from Paul Sims in XF for $149. Based on what I've read recently about certain dealers, my main concern would be that the coin would come back marked "cleaned" but instead it was a PVC issue. (I don't know if this means it had not been cleaned at some point in the past, based on the ruling.) My concern now is if it had it when I bought it, or did my storage cause it. The coin was placed in a self-seal 2x2 Day Mount Coin Holder. A google search found these still for sale. They claim to be PVC-free now, but the boxes I have do not mention PVC at all. (The picture on the site looks exactly the same as what I have.) The 2x2 was then placed in a 80-pocket Anco Coin Album. This does not seem to exist anymore, though the Coin Alblums mentioned on the first google result for Day Mount Coin Holder look remarkably similar, other than the text. The Trade Dollar was a little big for the 2x2, so it might not have been as air-tight as it could have been. The album, and all my other coins, were then stored for 15+ years in boxes on the main level of my home. My question to all, especially those who've been around a while, is this: do you remember Day Mount Coin Holders and/or Anco coin albums from the early 90's, and do you think that these were the source of the PVC? Possibly because the Trade Dollar was too big for the dollar-size holder it was in? Or is it possible the coin already had PVC residue when I bought it? Okay, a little more info: I still have some unused Anco albums, and I just went up and smelled them. They do have the plastic smell of a new shower curtain, so I'm guessing they have PVC. If the 2x2's are still well sealed, is this enough to keep them protected in these albums, or should I replace the albums? And do I need to replace the Day Mount 2x2's as well? (Replacing the albums is not a big task, but re-doing every 2x2 would be!) Thanks in advance!
You definitely need to replace the albums. When the PVC softening agent breaks down it turns into a gas. And since no coin holder is airtight, that gas can then get on the coins. Since this coin had PVC on it, it's a pretty safe bet that the others do too. I would suggest that you have a lot of work in front of you.
Okay, thanks for the info, even though it's not what I wanted to hear. I already started the process with NCS for the Trade Dollar. But at a minimum of $20 per coin (if I'm reading their prices correctly), it obviously doesn't make sense to send low-value coins to NCS. Considering that three of the albums were BU sets of Franklin halves, Washington quarters, and Roosevelt dimes, many (or most) of these coins aren't even worth $20. What are some suggestions for these coins? I realize I could try to remove the PVC residue myself, but I don't really trust myself around the chemicals needed to do this. Are there cheaper alternatives for bulk PVC removal services? Or should I just remove the coins from the album and hope for the best (do nothing else)?
It's pretty easy to do yourself and not expensive. But it does take some time. First, go to the hardware store and get yourself some pure acetone. depending on the size of your collection, you might need a couple quarts. And a couple gallons of distilled water. Then get 3 clean glass dishes, shallow bowls will work. Put 1/4" or so of acetone in 3 of the bowls. Place a coin in the first bowl, let it soak for a couple hours. Then remove it and place it in the second bowl, 15 minutes should do. Then place it in the 3rd bowl, 10 seconds will work here. Then rinse the coin thoroughly with the distilled water, holding the coin only by the edges and moving your fingers at least once to rinse the area covered by your fingers the first time. Then stand the coin on soft towel, on edge against the counter backsplash or something and let it air dry. When dry, put it in your new holder. Do the same thing with every coin. Now, remember this - do not re-use the acetone. Once used pour it in a bucket or something. DO NOT pour it down the sink drain as it can disolve some plumbing (plastic pipes). Then take the bucket of used stuff to a paint store, some will take it and some won't. Call around. And make sure to do this in a well ventilated area, acetone evaporates quickly and the fumes are explosive. And they can make you quite dizzy. And - I would not use acetone on any copper coin. Send those to NCS.
Basically already said. If you remember things like plaques, the one sure thing was to burn everything. I'm not suggesting you burn everything involved with your coins, but if I were you just to play safe, I'd start by getting rid of a lot of really old plastics. Way back no one really knew to much about the possible problems with some plastics and/or the additives in them. For example way back Asbestos was also included in some plastics to make them more heat resistant. Cutting such materials was not a problem back them but now??? Way back to make a watch glow in the dark people in factories used to dip a brush in radioactive materials and paint the hands. They would also, wet those brushes in thier mouths. Guess what? Now as to your coin holders. It might take some time as already noted but it's much better to be safe than sorry. Start with the flips, then the albums. Slowly just change to new products.
Something Doug didn't mention. You will have to keep the bowls of acetone covered orelse in a fw minutes you will have a bowl with a coin in it and no acetone. Acetone evaporates VERY quickly. A couple of personaly comments/opinions. I don't think long soaks are needed. acetone tends to works very fast, but for heavy deposits I think agitation works better than soaking. In a soak the solution close to the coin becomes saturated and then it stops working. I prefer to swish my coins around in the acetone so it is constantly being exposed to "fresh" solution and the contaminates are carried away from the coin. I also prefer a quick rinse with fresh acetone before putting the coin into the next bowl. Prevents contamination from one bowl to the next. Unless deposits are extrmely heave usually all you will need is 10 to 15 seconds swishing per bowl. As for disposal of the acetone, I just let it evaporate. On thing Doug didn't mention was to only do this in a WELL ventilated area with no ignition sources. Acetone is VERY flammable and it's high evaporation rate makes it easy to reach explosive atmospheres. As for drying the coin after rinsing, you can use Doug's method or I prefer to do a quick rinse with fresh acetone. The water will dissolve into the acetone and either be flushed away with the rinse or carried off when the acetone evaporates in a few seconds. No chance for water spots. As for the "PVC residue" itself. It might not be at all. They don't check to see if it is, any oily film or residue is called PVC residue. PVC flips leach out the oily plasticizer so when they see oil they call it PVC residue no matter where it might have come from. I have seen coins come straight from government proof and mint sets get bagged for PVC residue because they had too much of the oil they use to keep the planchets from sticking in the press feeder mechanisms on them.
Just wanted to update everyone on this "PVC Residue" which I now put in quotes because it may not actually exist. Why? Read on... So I sent this and some other coins to NCS to conserve and forward to NGC for grading. Since I got this Trade Dollar from Paul Sims, I was fairly sure it has been cleaned, and I wanted a Details slab if that was indeed the case. (Trade Dollars are apparently often counterfeited so I thought a slab would make it easier to sell, even if Details.) I sent these back in mid-December, and they just arrived today. Surprise - no PVC! There were 4 other coins in this lot that were all stored the same way, and no PVC on any of them. I say this because NCS charged me just $5 for each coin, which is the minimum evaluation fee. There was no charge under Conservation on the invoice, for any coin. NGC did indeed slab it, which I'm assuming they would not do if it had PVC residue on it. This makes me wonder about PCGS, which said there was residue. I sent this to them as part of their Collectors Club fall special, so maybe they just look for excuses to avoid working on these submissions. (Interestingly, it came back in a flip, not a Genuine slab as I thought it was supposed to nowadays, but maybe that's not true for CC submissions?) And just to provide further evidence of what so many say about Sims and Coast to Coast (selling cleaned coins, sometimes not even BU at that), I thought I'd list what came back, what I paid, what grade it was sold as, and by what company (all purchases early 1990s): 1874-S Trade Dollar, bought from Paul Sims as XF for $150, came back AU Details - Improperly Cleaned. (Oops - I'm sure they didn't mean to sell me an AU coin!) 1917 Walker, bought from Coast to Coast as Gem BU for $95, came back AU 55. 1917 Type 1 St. Lib Quarter, bought from Paul Sims as Gem BU for $150, came back UNC Details - Improperly Cleaned. 1892 Barber Dime, bought from Coast to Coast as Gem BU for $129, came back UNC Details - Improperly Cleaned 1822 Bust Half, bought from G&F Coin Galleries as XF for $100, came back XF 45 (way to go G&F!) Obviously, lesson learned, though if there had been forums like this back then, I might have learned from someone else's lesson. There are still others in my collection from those two cleaning companies - not sure if I will have them slabbed now.
Your problem is you think that if someone says they are a grading service, they really know what they are saying. Try to remember that a TPGS is just a pile of people doing a job and many may know less than you think. For all we know some may just be the kids of people already working there. Might already be outsourced to India you know. As an example, a dealer I know that has been a dealer for longer than most have been alive purchased a 1916D Mercury Dime, sent it in to a TPGS and had it sent back as a fake. He then resent it to a different TPGS and it came back graded and in a slab. Someone else I know didn't like the grade on a coin in a slab he purchased so he broke it out and sent it to a different TPGS. It came back a lesser grade. If you send those coins of yours to another grading service, they may come back with a note saying full of Radiation or Gold filings or something. :goofer: Try to remember that if your coins are not really expensive, don't add to your frustrations and problems by attempting to have them slabbed.
But do keep an eye on those coins. I remember and even have a couple of empty Anco coin holders. Still flexible and you can see film on the inside ( bought in late 70s , early 80s). PVC plasticizer damage is variable with time, temperature, and humidity being main factors. Remember the directions for the acetone rinse above. It won't hurt to do any of your remaining coins of higher value/quality. Especially a coin with a recent arrival. You usually won't know where that coin has been Jim
My main focus was really getting the coins conserved, because PCGS had me convinced that they were contaminated with PVC residue (and I don't want to deal with acetone myself). Since at that point I've already gone to the expense of sending the coins there and back, the cost of slabbing is down to just $16/coin. But if I had known that they didn't really need conserving, I likely wouldn't have done so.
Any advice on inexpensive storage which isn't made of PVC? I emailed both Ziploc and a vials.com (pharmacy bottle distributor) asking if their products contained PVC. Ziploc replied: Thanks for asking about Ziploc® Brand Freezer Bags. This product is not formulated to contain PVC. Vials.com replied: Our prescription vials are made of polypropylene (PP) and our liquid ovals are made of polyethylene (PET). We do not carry any products made of PVC. My inquiry to Ziploc and Vials was to determine if they would be an inexpensive and temporary means for storing coins and protecting them from moisture. I have several Littleton folders, along with silica, stored in the Ziploc freezer bag. I do not have any coins stored in a prescription bottle, but was considering stacking coins in the prescription bottle, again with silica. Do any of you have any advice? I plan to leave the Littleton folders in the Ziploc for about 8 months before I move them into a storage binder and safe. I really don't have any plans to use the prescription bottles, but put the question to the manufacturer out of curiosity.
