PVC Damage?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Joe2007, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. Joe2007

    Joe2007 Well-Known Member

    Hello folks,

    There is a few ancient/medieval coins in an upcoming estate sale in my area. I am considering attending. The only problem is it appears the previous owner kept these coins in plastic flips for an extended period of time. Do these coins likely have PVC damage?

    Here are a few example photos. It overall looks like a nice collection that someone spent some serious $$$$ on. It would be a shame if they are damaged through improper storage.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Joe2007

    auction1.jpg auction2.jpg
     
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  3. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    I don't see anything at this resolution, get a second opinion however.
     
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  4. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    they look like non-pvc flips
     
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  5. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Those are non-PVC flips, and a bit of PVC residue isn't serious anyway - just dip the coins in acetone and it's gone. Bronze disease is what you really need to worry about, but I don't see any, at least in the aerial view.
     
  6. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    I agree ... the beauty of ancients is that you're allowed to wipe-off the gunk (acetone is good stuff!!)

    => 2000 years of layin' in the dirt ... pretty sure that those plastic flips aren't gonna be the death of those sweet coins

    ... man, I wish I could do that to a few of my modern examples (but yah, there is zero-tolerance for cleaning moderns, eh?) ... I wish somebody had told me that when I was ten!! (*sigh*)

    Joe, good luck hunting (the coins look sweet)

    :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  7. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Acetone has revealed some interesting stuff. Some of the dark cabinet toned coins I've bought from reliable dealers came out lighter after an Acetone treatment. They were still clearly toned coins, so I don't think anyone faked it to make it look darker when the toning that was left was still attractive on its own, but obviously some of the material on them was organic. I suspect some of it might be tar deposits from tobacco smoke that accumulated on some of these coins over many decades of not cleaning. It's probably not that hard to imagine...after all, until the 1980s it was common for a lot of people to smoke in their homes...so you could see how a coin that's not been cleaned in 80 or 100 years, and sitting in a cabinet or tray, might have picked up a little extra color.
     
  8. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Eh...who needs coins that are hothouse flowers?
     
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  9. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    You should take a peek at my lungs!!
     
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  10. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I've had the same experience. Acetone WILL occasionally brighten up silver coins. Sometimes I use it intentionally for that reason. Not always, but sometimes. As you say, there must be some organic material mixed in with the tarnish.
     
  11. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I don't doubt it!

    bong.jpg
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Years ago I bought several coins from a collection in the first generation of PVC flips. The coins were slimy with residue which washed off easily and left no damage that bothered me. I'm sure the story would be different if the coins were modern proofs and the coins were ugly but now they look fine. How long would it take to damage high grade ancient surfaces? It would be better not to find out.
     
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  13. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey, don't judge me ...

    hot box 4 chrsmat.jpg
     
  14. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Artist & Historian Supporter

    Excellent question and topic for discussion Joe2007! I recently purchased some coins from a Vcoins dealer and when I received them I noticed that they were in a variety of plastic flips. Some were hard plastic but a few were very soft and pliable. I wasn't sure if they might contain PVC. Since the dealer was a Vcoins member, I doubt it. I changed them over to flips that I purchased that I know to be more archival and pvc free just to be safe.
     
  15. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    Wow, none of mine were quite so,,,,,Tall.
     
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  16. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Almost every coin I've bought arrived a soft flip, the type that has at least some PVC. PVC-free flips are very brittle and crack after just a few openings. If you're a dealer-- especially one who takes a table at shows, where flips will be handled frequently-- soft flips make sense. The end-collector can transfer it to a PVC-flip if desired.

    Some of my large bronze coins will crack their PVC-free flips even without opening them! In addition to cracking at the fold, they can and do crack at the "bottom" and the coin can fall out if you don't notice.

    One auction house (I don't remember which one, maybe Stacks?) included a note with the coins saying their flips were meant to be temporary.

    The OP images do look like PVC-free flips. The top pictures looks like the flips sold by Forvm and the bottom flips are Saflips, I think.

    As for value of the lot, I don't know anything about the medievals. The ancients look nice but are probably common/inexpensive types (not that there's anything wrong with that :D).
     
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  17. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Actually, many very reputable dealers use the soft PVC flips with the caveat that they are not meant for long-term storage. The soft flips are much easier to handle, and much less prone to cracking.
     
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  18. Smojo

    Smojo dreamliner

    @Joe2007 I work with a guy his wif owns a company that does Estates sales. All he's ever brought for me to look at was a couple low grade peace dollars. I offered melt, he hasn't brought any more coins to give my humble opinion of worth.
    Occasionally I ask about those dollars, his reply is I don't know what she's done with them. I'm sure she put them in the sale & some sap paid to much.
     
  19. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    IMG_5540.JPG

    The strips are hard plastic ... hey, they claim that they're PVC-free (hopefully they're correct)

    => otherwise, my Godson is gonna spend a fricken fortune on acetone!!

    I look at 'em almost every day ... hopefully I'll reckognize if they have the measles
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
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