PVC damage to coin bought at The Coinhouse Auctions?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Michael H Webb, Nov 22, 2020 at 6:38 AM.

Tags:
  1. Greetings!

    Bought a coin not so recently at Auction No 16 from The Coinhouse Auctions in Belgium on Sept. 30th which Peter Eyckmans so kindly posted on Nov. 4th, and subsequently received the coin Nov. 16th.

    Expected a coin resembling this photo posted for lot 574:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Wouldn’t have bid for the coin given its visible imperfections except that this coin is difficult to obtain in higher grades and, at 50 Euros, what could go wrong?

    These are photos of the coin actually received:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Notice that some identifying features of the idealized coin are also present in the actual coin.

    Coin has the appearance of being sprayed with a corrosive mist, possibly to hide the latent finger prints.

    Could the evenness of the pitting of the surfaces of the coin the result of storage in a PVC holder and subsequent removal of the PVC deposits?

    The 50 Euros bid price turned in to over $100 once shipped via PayPal and registered mail.

    Imagine using an auction house to pawn off junk coins rather than taking the coins to a scrap dealer!

    Attentively,

    Mike
     
    John Conduitt likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    I would demand a refund and return it!
     
    Michael H Webb likes this.
  4. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    This coin looks as it was sneezed on! I would return and ask for a full refund including shipping both ways.
     
    Michael H Webb likes this.
  5. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It's easy to hide stuff when imaging proofs. It's all about how you light the coin.
    The auction house should have included images that show the true look of the coin.
    I would try to return it as well. Hope the auction terms will allow you to do that.
     
    Michael H Webb and Paddy54 like this.
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    If the surface is not etched, that stuff should come off with
    MS-70.

    BTW I was teaching someone some basic coin conservation and they had coins soaking in acetone. Apparently, this is some common treatment recommended on Youtube and in coin forums. LOL! It's pure TRASH!!! What was happening is the "soak" was discoloring the coins

    An Acetone soak is good to remove plastic and some other coatings. You don't need a soak to remove haze or organics.
     
    medoraman and offa the saxon like this.
  7. offa the saxon

    offa the saxon Active Member

    That’s disgraceful. I would demand a refund
     
  8. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Please share. How is that possible?
     
    Oldhoopster and Paddy54 like this.
  9. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    I agree. I would love to hear here or another thread @Insider views on different hobby liquids we use, and how he uses them.
     
    Paddy54 and Spark1951 like this.
  10. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    I have used Acetone for decades on my coins , Never have I had one coin change coloring due to a soak using it.
     
    Oldhoopster likes this.
  11. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    So, why didn't he say something 10 years ago?
     
    Mountain Man and Paddy54 like this.
  12. Thanks! I will suggest the "sneezed on" analogy when asking for the refund!

    Of course, the coin must have been sneezed on twice for both sides to sustain the damage.

    While it's difficult to capture in photographs, the "sneeze" resulted in the pitting of the coin surfaces, much like the latent fingerprint below the base of the lilies.

    Encountered this damage on another coin that was actually shipped in a soft PVC holder. Seller claimed that the picture he used of that of the coin a few years ago and that damage must have occurred during storage.

    This coin is headed for its hard plastic flip while I apply for the refund.

    Ruled out accidental skin prints since the damage is so proximate to the coin devices.
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  13. Acetone can leave a sometimes bluish residue on a proof coin unless you distill your own:
    [​IMG]

    The power of acetone as a solvent is really its downfall.

    If you experience acetone residue on a coin, be prepared to have other solvents handy to remove the residue. You will need a probe ultrasonic device to mix the solvents proximate to the surface of the coin due to differences in the surface tensions of the solvents.

    Everyone will know that you regularly handle acetone due to your chemical scars if performed outside a well ventilated lab environment!

    I choose isopropanol 91% from HBProChem, not for its purity, but for its lack of visible residue.
     
  14. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Suck it up and let it be a lesson to you. I doubt very highly you would get a refund but you can always try, I guess, good luck.
     
  15. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Ive been collecting now what 59 years....never had any issues using it. On silver, clad ,nickel or copper.....not saying you haven't .
    You also are in another country ,and the purity could of been the issue.
    Dozens if not more members use it daily never seen a post until today stating that it caused color change.
     
  16. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    You know a responce like yours is uncalled for.....didn't your mama teach you if you dont have anything postive to say keep you mouth shut! The same rule applies here!
    Suck that up!
     
  17. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Paddy54, my mother taught us to end a statement on a positive note, I did. Have you ever tried to get a refund from a foreign entity? Very difficult. My intention was not to harm in any way. If you took it another way so be it you are entitled to an opinion and I do respect yours also. BE NICE!
     
  18. I would agree with you, however, fortunately the auction price did not meet the wire transfer threshold, so that I can pursue The Coinhouse Auctions remedy through PayPal's money back guarantee.

    Foreign merchants may complain about the shrinkage through doing business with Americans using PayPal, however, this is not my concern in this egregious instance.
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  19. Another reason for the disparities in experience with acetone are the special handling requirements of soft silver proof coins.

    For example, you can't simply wipe the proof coin clean of residue as you would with a nickel-clad quarter.

    I'm not the only one who has experienced residue in acetone. See technician's question concerning wafers used for electronic substrates below:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/8qca7z/why_does_acetone_leave_residues

    A procedure to provide wafers free from residue is outlined in the response:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/comments/8qca7z/why_does_acetone_leave_residues/e0i78gi/

    Not sure if silver proof coins could endure such a harsh environment, though.
     
  20. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Well again over 30 +/- years using it never a issue....on all sorts of medals and coins.
     
  21. I have residue issues with all of the isopropanol solutions I've tried, especially those claiming 99% purity. Used 91% Equate isopropanol from Walmart before the pandemic. Now, it leaves too much dissolved residue on coins, so I use 91% isopropanol from HBProChem.

    The remedy for residue left by isopropanol is to use more isopropanol that does not leave a residue. May use distilled water with only varying degrees of success.

    Even the purest acetone is guaranteed to be no more than 5 parts sludge per million:

    [​IMG]

    It's transported in glass or metal containers. Costs $78 per liter:

    [​IMG]

    You need to file paperwork with the DEA before shipment.

    Acetone is cancerous and mutagenic:

    [​IMG]

    Acetone is not repelled by the surface of a coin as are water and alcohol. Once coated with acetone, distilled water or alcohol will bead and run off a coin, leaving the residue-laden acetone.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page