Ptolemy I Tet - Real or Fake?

Purchasing a coin with a 35 year old pedigree is absolutely no help against forgery. No offense, but that is terrible advice.

 

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Well, it is of significant value when it comes to Chinese coins, as long as there is some reason to think the pedigree hasn't been faked.

 

I know nothing about Chinese coins what-so-ever so I don’t doubt you’re right. However, the context of my comment was in regard to the Greek coin that started this thread. That “if it is indeed 35 years old, the chances of it being fake are slim.Would have been too hard to fool back then”

 

Got it, you're right of course. I was just partially defending arashpour's comment when he said "specially the case for chinese cast coins."

 

I agree @Severus Alexander that pedigree could be faked too but in my specific case, I got these from CNG and they provided original board and tags and docs to prove it was from the mentioned collection in 1940s.

 

From one who is not knowledgeable about Chinese coins, Real or Fake. I have a book, "Fakes & Forgeries" by Brian Innes. Chapter 1, "Funny Money" Covers some 30+ pages. This paragraph is selected - "How It's Done. Genuine coins are usually "struck" from molten metal under pressure between two engraved dies. Early forgers (and many more recent ones) did not have the technology for this. They made casts in terra-cotta or plaster from genuine coins in order to form their molten metal. As a result, counterfeit coins usually do not have such a sharp image, and their edges are less well defined." - Some of you may already know this. It is for the benefit of those who don't.

 

your comment are contradictory, in one comment you say that "Purchasing a coin with a 35 year old pedigree is absolutely no help against forgery" and in other you say "if it is indeed 35 years old, the chances of it being fake are slim" I am confused!

 

"if it is indeed 35 years old..." was a quote from RomanGreekCoin3. Nemo was definitely not asserting this.

 

Yes, he was.

After Alexander died abruptly, from either illness or possibly poisoned, he had no direct heir to his throne in his will,But Philip III( Alexanders half brother) was a puppet king under Alexanders generals, but that didnt last long, then Alexander IV ( Alexander the Greats son) took over, but then he was killed by Kassander,( one of Alexanders Generals) After that, the Generals carved up Alexanders empire.

Ptolemy I founded the Ptolemaic Dynasty in Egypt. You might remember Cleopatra VII - ( of Battle of Actium/Mark Antony fame) She was the last Pharoah of Ptolemys Dynasty

 

Thanks for that, RomanGreekCoin3. But wasn't Caesarion, son of Cleopatra and, allegedly, Julius Caesar, Pharoah for a while ? If so, he would have been the last Pharoah of the Ptolemys Dynasty.

 

well machinery improved since then. most old fakes are crude in style and easy to detect casts but pressed fakes made by hydraulic machine is hard to detect and that did not existed 50 years ago I guess.

 

Yes and no.

I think Caesarian was Co- Pharoah with Cleopatra for a short while.- But it was kinda meaningless since Egypt was a vassal( client state) of the Roman Republic during this time. Mark Antony was getting seduced by Cleopatra so she and her Son can take over part of the Roman Republic after Mark Antony died

After the Battle of Actium, Antony and Cleopatra committed suicide, Augustus killed Caesarian and thus became the new Pharoah of Egypt- turning the country into a true province of Rome.

Right before this
Caesarian was more of a puppet co ruler with his mom .( and she was kind of a puppet ruler for her husband Mark Antony)

Caesarian was the last Pharoah( with that title) but he was too young to control anything really

Lets just say Cleopatra was the last active ( defacto) leader of Egypt before it became a province of Rome. This is why she fought with Antony against Octavian and Agrippa during the Battle of Actium, and Caesarian had nothing to do with it. She was pulling the strings.

Technically you are correct. Officially you are not

Historians consider Cleopatra to be the true Pharoah at the time, even though she tried to pass the baton to her young son she had with Julius Caesar

 

I accept that not an active Pharoah, but, at least nominally, Caesarian was in "the Saddle", for a while, after his mother's questionable reason of death.

 

From "An Introduction to Coins and Medals" by Colin Narbeth. "Forgery was very common in Chinese history and the populace seemed to have not minded a great deal whether the coin was a counterfeit or not. Traders did their business with scales to check the weight anyway, and there is some evidence to suggest that at certain times counterfeit coins were more popular in that they were lighter to carry. Punishment for counterfeiting ranged from outright beheading to castration or having a hand cut off, but its deterrent effect did not prevent the forgers from producing their wares." - If going for Chinese holidays, and - whilst strolling along the Great Wall - considering a bit of coin forgery - Don't even think about it !!!

 

Well considering he was under 17 years old during the battle of Actium in 31BC... and most Pharoahs that young are being controlled by a regent, How much power could he really have had?

 

RomanGreekCoin3. Accepted that Caesarion was young and controlled by a regent, nevertheless, titularly, at least, he would have been in charge. Bearing in mind, his background was extremely powerful - his parents (allegedly) being Cleopatra VII and the Julius Caesar. Others may have exercised power on his behalf, but it would have been, potentially, very great power.

 

Well, Carl Becker 200 years ago created fakes that still deceive a lot of people ...
There are some paduans of about 400 years old, so well made that they are sold as sestertii by some sellers, and are bought by mistake by a lot of numismatists with reasonable experience. So I have to disagree with this opinion.

 

He finally found the coin!!!!11!!!!

It was in a 35mm film canister in his glove box (who still has film canisters?). He put it there when I asked him to take it to a jewelers to have it weighed.

Trying to work out a trip to see them around FUN.