https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/nu...313_trier__copper_ric825/1621515/Default.aspx --- Wondering what this means.. and how this is different for my LRB? Let me guess.. silver content? Hmm.. Would like to learn more .... bullion argenteus? Is my coin just missing silver wash from wear/cleaning?
Compare RIC volume VI page 224 # 825 and RIC volume VII page 182 # 210 and the notes on both pages. Mention is made in both places of disagreement as to what to do with these coins. They are outside my area of interest so I have not kept up with current thinking. Perhaps one of our late Roman specialists will clear it up for us??? One big question is whether we view something with four times the silver to be different than something only 1% silver or if both are just 'AE'. I have not had mine tested but the metal reminds me of low grade billon. I really know nothing of note. Below is my example of RIC volume VI page 224 # 826 listed as the same issue for Maximinus II. Mine appears to be a bit better in terms of silver content but I have no idea what was the intent at the mint or how much time elapsed between the production of these coins. Collectors/dealers/scholars too often hang names on coins (Pseudo included) without really knowing the intent of the mint on the date of production. Were all these coins once the same and the differences we see now the result of weathering? Was there a period spanning the issue during which the coin intended to be the argentius lost so much of its silver that it no longer was issued? This, IMO, demonstrates the dangers of reading one expert and accepting his word as gospel. Footnotes made it clear that Dr. Sutherland and Dr. Bruun did not read the evidence in the same exact way. If I were quessing, I would expect to find that there was a steady decline in metal until it became obvious that it was time to stop issuing the argentius as a separate piece. That is just a guess but I have not read any explanations from the scholars that clarify either the 'truth' or the reasoning behind their opinions. I assume someone must have published more on this since RIC in 1966-67. That may just be an assumption. I agree with the guess and that includes the 'Hmm'. Another opinion: This sort of thing demonstrates a reason to read the text and footnotes in books like RIC rather than just farming them for catalog numbers. I am no scholar. I have no access to the materials available to the good doctors who wrote these references and disagreed with each other on a few minor points. In the specialties that do interest me more, I am more aware of such questions and more bothered by them. I rather assume (right or wrong) that there are similar questions less than fully resolved on most other areas of ancient coinage. One can only wonder what progress might be made in our understanding of these things in the next couple centuries or will, by then, the only appreciation of these items be that they are shiny?
Consider the case of the US half dollar. In 1964 it was still 90% silver, then for five years a 40% silver coin, though layered in such a way it looked almost the same of the 90% coins. Then from 1970 on a coin that vaguely looked silver with no silver in them. We could call those later coins pseudo silver half dollars and pretty soon just became unpopular and not much circulated after just a few years of them. Maybe something similar with these ersatz argentii
I was also under the impression that the series of 'pseudo-argenteus' coinage was struck only with PTR marking, at least this is the case with the issues for Maximinus II and Constantine of the same 'denomination'. This would fit with the status of a special coinage that it had ca. 312-13 when it was likely minted, while the AE 'centenionalis' or the reduced 'follis' with the same design was introduced around 318, but this time only for the remaining Augusti Licinius and Constantine. In 318 the billon used in the AE was ca. 5% silver, but the earlier 'pseudo-argenteus' types had ca. 20% silver, which I think marks these coins being obviously different than the later low billon types. Because of this, my thoughts would be that if a coin is: 1. not of a noticeable silver appearance, even a dull silver look, compatible with a 200/1000 title (think for comparison the Eastern radiates of Gallienus, Valerian, or the Macriani from ca. 260) 2. not marked PTR then it was probably a later 318-19 AE issue. Also check this out: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia/coins/r6/bill_arg.htm
But how much did half dollars really circulate even before 1970, and/or before 1964? I'm old enough to remember the late 60s rather well, and the early 60s somewhat less so, but I don't recall that they were very popular in either period. I almost never got them in change. Perhaps somewhat more frequently than the $2.00 bill!
The coins we call "argentei" started out c. 294 with good silver. By 310 they were no longer issued. The story and types are discussed here: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/argenteus/ Then, c. 313, there was an issue for Constantine, Licinius, and Maximinus II only at Trier with slightly better silver than the copper coins of the era. The three types are discussed far down on that page here: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/argenteus/#later Two of the three types are very similar to later issues we think of as copper (also illustrated there). Constantine, struck c. 313-315, issue 16, according to Schulten. 18 mm. Base-silver argenteus, c. 25% silver. IMP CONSTANTI-NVS AVG VICTORIAE LAETAE PRINC PERP Two Victories holding shield inscribed VOT/PR over altar, PTR in exergue. RIC VI Trier 208a [318-319] The metal shows signs of silver, but it seems far from pure. This type was issued later as a regular AE3 "reduced follis." For much more, see the web page.
Ah, the advantage of being a bit older than you. I had sources in the late 1950's and early 1960's that allowed me to see that at that time period they were actually a fairly common coin in circulation. Cash register drawers had a slot specifically for the 50 cent piece. I know this because I had a grocery store owner who knew I collected coins and let me go through the till (there were such people back then). That slot always had some, not that I had much interest in either the walking Liberty or Franklin haves. I wanted Barber coins, Buffalo and liberty head nickels and they could still be found in circulation then. I was not interested in any silver dollars which occasionally showed up as my sister worked at the Federal Reserve Bank in Philly and could get any number of them at face value. My father's job allowed him much change and I always had the run of his coin purse. In 1960 I found a 42 over 41 mercury dime and plenty of well worn 50 cent pieces. Being in college by the early sixties I still paid attention to the coinage in my change. The 50 cent piece was still not an unusual coin. What I did notice staring in 1964 that when the mint came out with the Kennedy half dollar everybody and his brother wanted not just one but as many as they could get. The mint could not fill the demand and people were already buying the coins at a premium in 1964. Sudently no one seemed to want to spend a half dollar, any half dollar, and when the US in 1965 stopped issuing 90% silver coinage and the price of silver went up all silver coins vanished from common circulation (even the 40% ones as silver increased more in value). By the time the mint started on the cupro-nickel half dollars in 1970 the public had gotten used to not using a coin of that denomination. Those 50 cent slots began to be used for Ike dollars and later the smaller dollar coins. But let me assure you that prior to the mid sixties the half dollar was still very much in circulation, at least in the Philly region. Allow me to thank you, Donna, as you have given me a good reason to be happy to be older than i usually like to admit.
The issues also have distinctive types of busts. I've always been interested in this issue. Perhaps they were celebrations of the Maxentian defeat? Or part of some Rhineland donative?
I bow to your superior age and knowledge! It seems that you're probably about 10 years older than I am, given that I began college in the early 70s. And the mid-1960s corresponds with the time-period when I began spending small amounts of money myself instead of my parents doing it for me. I do remember a little bit before that, when my parents would occasionally give me a $5 bill so I could walk to the bank a couple of blocks away and exchange it for five silver dollars. It's difficult now to believe that that was ever possible.
It was indeed possible. My sister worked at the bank in the early sixties. On payday she would go to the head cashier and be given access to the drawers where the silver dollars were kept. She usually got about five. One time she brought home a seated dollar. We built up a good collection of those coins but in the early 70's my apartment was robbed. Something else I learned from her was to get homeowners insurance for what was my first apartment. The second thing I found out fast was that insurance paid only face value on coins and currency not any numismatic premium.
I remember them a lot when I was a kid in the 50's. Fifty cents was a lot of money and served to buy many meals at the kind of diner I frequented for lunch in Junior High (our school had no cafeteria so we either walked home or ate downtown). I paid cash with a half but remember more in circulation then were Walking Liberty style. This all came to a halt in 1964 when they put JFK's head on halves and people who loved or hated him started avoiding them or hoarded them. My mother saved all she got. When the changed to the 40% coins in 1965, we started paying with two quarters and got out of the habit of using halves even when they stopped having silver. As I recall, my standard favorite lunch was a Manhattan open face and a coke. WIKI tells it as I remember it and I grew up in central Indiana. I no longer eat either beef or gravy but I remember thinking it was a real deal in the late 50's. Who admits to having played the game where each kid bought a 10 cent, 6 oz. Coke from a machine and the one with the bottom of the bottle farthest away got his free? To make this coin related: Who knows the ancient coin dealer who also wrote the book on collectable Coke bottles? I should have kept some of the ones I got rather than turning the bottles in for the 2 cent deposit. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...-53200-19255-0&campid=5338792814&toolid=10001
I had to look up what a Manhattan sandwich is. I've had those before; Frisch's sold them as open face roast beef sandwiches (although it seems to have mysteriously disappeared from the menu - roast beef shortage?). I prefer mine with the mashed potatoes separate. Heck, even finding an actual diner is difficult now. I grew up in the early 80s, so the only Coke bottle machine I remember was a cooler in the barbershop which sold 12 or 16 oz. Cokes. Per the trivia; I don't know.
