Pseudo-Argenteus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Pishpash, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    I won a lot of 8 coins including this Licinius. Someone said it might be a pseudo argenteus, which would be nice, but this appears to have a mint PARL, difficult to see from the sellers pics.

    I read a post on forvmancientcoins which said that the only pseudo argenteus were struck at the Trier mint. So mine is not a PA. Does anyone have any information on pseudo argenteus coins?

    If you search for pseudo argenteus on acsearch, lots of coins come up, lots from other mints.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    stevex6 and chrsmat71 like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Cannot tell what it is, but it does look similar to PARL. Will need better pics for sure.
     
  4. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I'll be honest, what does "pseudo" mean in regards to this coin? I am under the impression that the word means not genuine; sham. Are you saying this is not a genuine coin/argenteus?
     
  5. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    "Pseudo argenteus" refers to some coins, minted in Trier (as far as I know) that had a higher than normal silver content.

    I googled PA and found a link on forvmancientcoins that said they were only minted in Trier.
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=33080.0;wap2

    I just wondered where the information originated. There are many different mints if you look on ACsearch.
     
  6. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
    Pishpash likes this.
  7. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    The so called pseudo-argenteus was only minted in Trier and for Licinius it should have a whole different bust type altogether.
    1277330.jpg

    Yours is a good-looking follis/nummus of Licinius from Arles, a bit scarce and in good shape :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
    Pishpash, stevex6 and Orfew like this.
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    rx4270bb2309.jpg

    I know enough about these to know I don't know. That puts me ahead of some who claim these are just AE3 and whoever came up with that pseudo name. What we don't know about denominations in this era would fill a large book. I recall they come in Constantine but with a different reverse. I do not recall seeing a write up including a report on the metal alloy.
     
    chrsmat71, Pishpash, stevex6 and 2 others like this.
  9. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    @dougsmit Certainly an area for historians and numismatists to work on in the future.
    I just saw this CGB listing last night and remembered that Pish had a similar coin.
     
  10. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    As I can remember - I don't have any reference right now - the so called pseudo-argenteus differs not only by bust type but also by the composition of the billon, having around 20-25% silver.
    Here are the corresponding types from the other 2 augusti these were minted for:

    Constantine
    1237175.jpg

    Maximinus II
    236831.jpg
     
    chrsmat71, stevex6, Pishpash and 3 others like this.
  11. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    Eureka!

    You are correct Seth!
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/historia/coins/r6/bill_arg.htm

    From the article
    "Constantine's and Licinius' "billon argenteus" were also struck in the normal 5% silver metal in the 318-319 period, and not just at Trier. They should not be confused with the real thing, not just by their lack of silver appearance but by differences in their markings (mint, officina etc.). There is a denomination called a 'centenionalis' that is attested to in ancient writings. It is assumed that it was this denomination that followed the follis and represented one hundredth of something, maybe a gold coin. The current theory is that the "billon argenteus/siliqua" was the prototype centenionalis, that perhaps the authorities decided they were giving away too much silver and continued with the 5% silver version, starting in 318. This provides the cut-off point between the follis and the centenionalis, though since the two denominations were of a similar size, how did the populace know the difference in values, if there was one?
     
    7Calbrey, Pishpash and seth77 like this.
  12. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Excellent article. Not sure it helps me though. I don't think mine is a billon argenteus, my coin has bronze showing through. It would have been interesting to have been able to put it on the label. I learned something though, so thanks everyone.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page