Provenance & Coin Flip Inserts

Here's the questions that I am hoping the experts of CT can help me to answer:

What can the coin flip tell me about this coin (beyond what is written)? Is there any database of images that might help me figure out where this flip might have originated - beyond somewhere in the UK? Any idea what "LII" might refer to?

AND

Should I hang on to this insert as an important clue to the provenance of this coin? Does it make the coin more or less interesting to have this piece of paper?

BTW : the coin weights 1.7g and is about 16mm at widest and a die axis of 180 degrees.

Thanks in advance for you advice!

 

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IDK what it means or where it came from, but I'd keep it.

 

I typically keep anything that comes with the coin in the 2x2 space then also create my own 2x2 insert with handwritten attribution.

 

my experience is that even if you don't fully understand or appreciate the ticket, in 10 years you might, and the ticket may prove valuable or important or both.

a few basic techniques I use. Check the cited catalogue refs. If the numbers don't match that means its likely an older catalogue consulted, a prior edition. Which means an older ticket. If there no reference to the current RSC1, issued in mid 1970s, that means something. The handwriting and format of the ticket may provoke later recognition. Use all available information formats. Absence of a modern ref in a ticket often is important. The LII ref may make sense in future. Finally whether you like the tickets or not, a future owner might. The ticket may prove to be worth $20 or $50 eventually.

 

Thanks @Andrew McCabe - catalog references as date evidence is much appreciated thought!

 

Working it a bit...not too surprising that the almost unanimous vote was "keep it".

@Andrew McCabe you mention "no reference to the current RSC1" but the
"Sby. 386" matches RSC number for this coin "RSC 1- Republic to Augustus (1978)"? Is "Sby." an alternate way to reference same catalog or does it imply different books?

S. 402 doesn't match my "Sear Roman Coins and their Values" as I have 501 in the 1988 edition. Is S something other than Sear? Is there a good resource for number changes between major references?

not listed: RIC 001a, BMCRE 293-4, BN 1065-70, BMC 565

LII - maybe "52" some sort of catalog number, the year purchased, or a reference to a tray location - row L column II

A reasonable guess that my flip insert has been around since before 1988?

 

Maybe LII is the dealer's code for how much he paid for the coin (£52) and £100 was his asking price. Many dealers (and collectors) record what they paid in code on the insert.

 

Dealers and collectors alike use codes to record just about any information one can think up. I had a consignor once, and seeing a number and letter code on his tags asked him what they meant. He said he had no idea, he had forgotten!

 

I keep most of the inserts but there have been a few occasions they are junky or not much written on them other than a dealer code or emperor/ruler on it. When there isn't much to them, I just throw it away.

 

Thanks @TIF for another good suggestion!

 

Sby is probably Seaby - they used to publish RSC until bought by Spink. The numbers in RSC actually come from Babelon for the Republican coins and Cohen for the Imperial coins, so they go back a long way!

I'd assumed S referred to Sear as well, but maybe not - or perhaps the numbers were different in older editions of RC&TV?

ATB,
Aidan.

 

My first week using CoinTalk, and I am at risk of getting obsessive - amazing amounts of information & diversity of experts. My lesson learned : search first, post second: a great reference here related to provenance, tags and inserts:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/questions-about-provenance.324470/

I was especially interested to read the regulation reason to retain tags and records. Also, I had forgotten about ExNummis https://www.ex-numis.com/ as a search tool, although personal experience was a long list of "No positive match" after which I gave up...

 

In Early American Coppers, a few years ago, one of our members did a project on the envelopes used by current and past collectors for exactly the purpose of maintaining provenances. The title was The Copper Collector's Guide to the Identification of 2x2 Envelopes by Ralph Rucker with Del Bland. It was printed by Heritage gratis and given free to members. It was a great project and was much appreciated by the membership. Anyone who managed to get a second copy was asked to donate it to a library.

 

Thanks! @halfcent1793, exactly..."The Ancient Coin Collector's Guide to 2x2s" ...

 

If the coin has any importance at all, keep the tags.

 

I wish that there was a volume like @halfcent1793 showed for ancient coins. I have several envelopes with known provenances covered in writing I don't understand, and other very old envelopes with lost provenances.

 

Welcome. You may enjoy exploring the links found here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ancient-coins-beginners’-faq-thread.324858/#post-3206438

 

By the way, for a while in my cataloging system I recorded the amount I paid in Roman numerals. Not especially clever, but most people casually browsing through my collection would not know what CXXII meant. Since that time, I have become less self-conscious and just list my paid price in Arabic, or “regular,” numerals.

 

I can only hope that my envelopes stay with my coins in the future. A lot of research has gone into getting the correct attributions and provenances for each piece, it would be a shame if all that was lost.

 

Some specialist collectors, like you with Flavians, would serve well with a PDF book or something with your coins and descriptions and made available online.

It would take a while but well worth it for future collectors since everything is computers nowadays.