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"Provenance Chart": Hidrieus Tetradrachm, 1884-2021
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<p>[QUOTE="Curtis, post: 8243125, member: 26430"][USER=110350]@DonnaML[/USER] -- that's a fantastic coin with a fantastic backstory! I'm glad you linked that post because there are a number of other wonderful examples -- I must've just missed it. I've put the link in my "provenance notes" file and look forward to finishing the whole thread.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>That one is probably the best documented -- certainly in terms of photography over a long period of time. I do tend to go for coins that have as much density of prior information as possible and then investigate to exhaustion. Sometimes it's all relatively recent (e.g., most of those in <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/some-favorite-ex-cointalk-member-coins-posted-by-previous-owners.393903/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/some-favorite-ex-cointalk-member-coins-posted-by-previous-owners.393903/">my other new post on CT Member coins</a>).</p><p><br /></p><p>For the Hidrieus, most of the info was in the auction listing, but usually I look for coins that I suspect have longer backstories than the catalogers are aware of, and often bid only when I find something interesting. (If I lose I try to let the seller or winner know, e.g., by adding a comment with provenance research to acsearch.info.)</p><p><br /></p><p>Here's an interesting one where CNG gave a provenance back to 2004, but I found a more interesting story back to the 1990s, maybe even late 1970s (including this coin being one of the first "slabbed" ancients ever and part of a big failed ancient coin investment fund -- Athena Fund -- though I had to de-slab it to find the rest):</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1451309[/ATTACH]</p><p>I'm working on such a chart for my new Byzantine AE Tetarteron of John III of Nicaea (<a href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/8231939" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/8231939">shared briefly here</a>). CNG suggested it was "reportedly" from the Hugh Goodacre (1865-1952) collection, sold in 1986. I found he had published it in his classic handbook of Byzantine coinage and two articles in the 1930s (making it definitely his, and also having been loaned to Oxford/Ashmolean Museum for several decades after he died). I suspect the provenance goes back almost another 100 years to a line-drawing in an 1842 essay by de Saulcy, citing it as ex-Curt von Bose collection (if that's really it; and an engraving by Leon Dardel in Sabatier's 1862 volume).</p><p><br /></p><p>You've cited one favorite resource of mine:</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Here's the link to the <a href="https://www.academia.edu/33906715/_Provenance_glossary_" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/33906715/_Provenance_glossary_" rel="nofollow">combined document</a>, available on <a href="https://independent.academia.edu/HadrienRambach" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://independent.academia.edu/HadrienRambach" rel="nofollow">his academia.edu page</a>: Rambach, Hadrien. 2016-2018. “Provenance Glossary” (Parts I, II, and III)</p><p><br /></p><p>He has a couple other useful papers on the history of collecting, this one on his academia --</p><p> </p><blockquote><p><font size="4">Hadrien Rambach. 2017. “<a href="https://www.academia.edu/28256076/A_List_of_Coin_Dealers_in_nineteenth_century_Germany" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.academia.edu/28256076/A_List_of_Coin_Dealers_in_nineteenth_century_Germany" rel="nofollow">A List of Coin Dealers in Nineteenth Century Germany</a>,” pp. 63-84 in Stefan Krmnicek & Henner Hardt (eds), <i>A Collection in Context. Kommentierte Edition der Briefe und Dokumente Sammlung Dr. Karl von Schäffer</i> (Tübinger Numismatische Studien. Band 1), Tübingen University Press. </font></p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>I don't see the following on academia, but available directly from <i>SMB</i> (with some of my notes):</p><p><br /></p><blockquote><font size="4">Rambach, Hadrien. 2010. “<a href="https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?pid=smb-001%3A2010%3A60%3A%3A40&referrer=search" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?pid=smb-001%3A2010%3A60%3A%3A40&referrer=search" rel="nofollow"><b>Collectors at auction, auctions for collectors</b></a>.” <i>Schweizer Münblätter</i> [SMB] 60: pp. 35-43.</font></p><blockquote><p><font size="4">35: “…short history of auctions…” </font></p><p><font size="4">beginning with Herodotus, continuing through antiquity, medieval, and modern period.</font></p><p><font size="4"> 37: “The first printed auction catalogue was published in Leyden for the dispersal of the library of Philips van Marnix van Sint-Aldegonde 1538–1598) on 6 July 1599. The catalogue was prepared by the renowned book-dealer Louis Elzevier c.1540–1617); among the lots were several numismatic books and some ancient coins as well. The first printed auction catalogue devoted to coins was issued in Amsterdam for the sale of the Johan Raphael Grill Collection in 1679.”</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p></blockquote></blockquote><p>A couple other interesting ones online:</p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p><font size="4"><b>Forrer</b>, Leonard (posthumous?). 2003 (?). “<a href="https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/2003_BNJ_73_20.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/2003_BNJ_73_20.pdf" rel="nofollow">Numismatic Reminiscences of the Last Sixty Years</a>: by a Coin Dealer.” <i>British Numismatic Journal </i>73 (20): 191-196. </font></p></blockquote><p><br /></p><p>The recent volume produced by Kuenker in cataloging the Mark Salton-Schlessinger Collection:</p><p><br /></p><blockquote><p><font size="4"><b>Kampann</b>, Ursula. 2022. <i>The Origins of the German Coin Trade: The Hamburger and Schlessinger Families</i>. Fritz Rudolph Künker. Salton, Schlessinger, Hamburger Families & Collection. [.pdf downloaded; <a href="https://issuu.com/kuenkercoins/docs/kuenker_broschuere_salton-collection_en" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://issuu.com/kuenkercoins/docs/kuenker_broschuere_salton-collection_en" rel="nofollow">on Issuu</a>; direct link to pdf: <a href="https://www.kuenker.de/data/kataloge/Kuenker_Broschuere_Salton-Collection_en.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.kuenker.de/data/kataloge/Kuenker_Broschuere_Salton-Collection_en.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.kuenker.de/data/kataloge/Kuenker_Broschuere_Salton-Collection_en.pdf</a> ]</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p></blockquote><p>And by the always-enjoyable-to-read "ASW":</p><blockquote><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><b>Walker, </b>Alan S. “Catalogues and Their Collectors.” <i>American Journal of Numismatics (1989-)</i> Vol. 20, 150 YEARS (2008), pp. 597-615. <a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/43580331" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/43580331" rel="nofollow">https://www.jstor.org/stable/43580331</a></font></p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Curtis, post: 8243125, member: 26430"][USER=110350]@DonnaML[/USER] -- that's a fantastic coin with a fantastic backstory! I'm glad you linked that post because there are a number of other wonderful examples -- I must've just missed it. I've put the link in my "provenance notes" file and look forward to finishing the whole thread. That one is probably the best documented -- certainly in terms of photography over a long period of time. I do tend to go for coins that have as much density of prior information as possible and then investigate to exhaustion. Sometimes it's all relatively recent (e.g., most of those in [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/some-favorite-ex-cointalk-member-coins-posted-by-previous-owners.393903/']my other new post on CT Member coins[/URL]). For the Hidrieus, most of the info was in the auction listing, but usually I look for coins that I suspect have longer backstories than the catalogers are aware of, and often bid only when I find something interesting. (If I lose I try to let the seller or winner know, e.g., by adding a comment with provenance research to acsearch.info.) Here's an interesting one where CNG gave a provenance back to 2004, but I found a more interesting story back to the 1990s, maybe even late 1970s (including this coin being one of the first "slabbed" ancients ever and part of a big failed ancient coin investment fund -- Athena Fund -- though I had to de-slab it to find the rest): [ATTACH=full]1451309[/ATTACH] I'm working on such a chart for my new Byzantine AE Tetarteron of John III of Nicaea ([URL='https://www.cointalk.com/posts/8231939']shared briefly here[/URL]). CNG suggested it was "reportedly" from the Hugh Goodacre (1865-1952) collection, sold in 1986. I found he had published it in his classic handbook of Byzantine coinage and two articles in the 1930s (making it definitely his, and also having been loaned to Oxford/Ashmolean Museum for several decades after he died). I suspect the provenance goes back almost another 100 years to a line-drawing in an 1842 essay by de Saulcy, citing it as ex-Curt von Bose collection (if that's really it; and an engraving by Leon Dardel in Sabatier's 1862 volume). You've cited one favorite resource of mine: Here's the link to the [URL='https://www.academia.edu/33906715/_Provenance_glossary_']combined document[/URL], available on [URL='https://independent.academia.edu/HadrienRambach']his academia.edu page[/URL]: Rambach, Hadrien. 2016-2018. “Provenance Glossary” (Parts I, II, and III) He has a couple other useful papers on the history of collecting, this one on his academia -- [INDENT][SIZE=4]Hadrien Rambach. 2017. “[URL='https://www.academia.edu/28256076/A_List_of_Coin_Dealers_in_nineteenth_century_Germany']A List of Coin Dealers in Nineteenth Century Germany[/URL],” pp. 63-84 in Stefan Krmnicek & Henner Hardt (eds), [I]A Collection in Context. Kommentierte Edition der Briefe und Dokumente Sammlung Dr. Karl von Schäffer[/I] (Tübinger Numismatische Studien. Band 1), Tübingen University Press. [/SIZE][/INDENT] I don't see the following on academia, but available directly from [I]SMB[/I] (with some of my notes): [INDENT][SIZE=4]Rambach, Hadrien. 2010. “[URL='https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view?pid=smb-001%3A2010%3A60%3A%3A40&referrer=search'][B]Collectors at auction, auctions for collectors[/B][/URL].” [I]Schweizer Münblätter[/I] [SMB] 60: pp. 35-43.[/SIZE] [INDENT][SIZE=4]35: “…short history of auctions…” beginning with Herodotus, continuing through antiquity, medieval, and modern period. 37: “The first printed auction catalogue was published in Leyden for the dispersal of the library of Philips van Marnix van Sint-Aldegonde 1538–1598) on 6 July 1599. The catalogue was prepared by the renowned book-dealer Louis Elzevier c.1540–1617); among the lots were several numismatic books and some ancient coins as well. The first printed auction catalogue devoted to coins was issued in Amsterdam for the sale of the Johan Raphael Grill Collection in 1679.” [/SIZE][/INDENT][/INDENT] A couple other interesting ones online: [INDENT][SIZE=4][B]Forrer[/B], Leonard (posthumous?). 2003 (?). “[URL='https://www.britnumsoc.org/publications/Digital%20BNJ/pdfs/2003_BNJ_73_20.pdf']Numismatic Reminiscences of the Last Sixty Years[/URL]: by a Coin Dealer.” [I]British Numismatic Journal [/I]73 (20): 191-196. [/SIZE][/INDENT] The recent volume produced by Kuenker in cataloging the Mark Salton-Schlessinger Collection: [INDENT][SIZE=4][B]Kampann[/B], Ursula. 2022. [I]The Origins of the German Coin Trade: The Hamburger and Schlessinger Families[/I]. Fritz Rudolph Künker. Salton, Schlessinger, Hamburger Families & Collection. [.pdf downloaded; [URL='https://issuu.com/kuenkercoins/docs/kuenker_broschuere_salton-collection_en']on Issuu[/URL]; direct link to pdf: [URL]https://www.kuenker.de/data/kataloge/Kuenker_Broschuere_Salton-Collection_en.pdf[/URL] ] [/SIZE][/INDENT] And by the always-enjoyable-to-read "ASW": [INDENT][SIZE=4] [B]Walker, [/B]Alan S. “Catalogues and Their Collectors.” [I]American Journal of Numismatics (1989-)[/I] Vol. 20, 150 YEARS (2008), pp. 597-615. [URL]https://www.jstor.org/stable/43580331[/URL][/SIZE][/INDENT][/QUOTE]
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"Provenance Chart": Hidrieus Tetradrachm, 1884-2021
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