Probus quinarius

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gogili1977, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    I bought this ae quinarius of Probus. I couldn't find the same one with that bust. If anyone specialist for Probus knows any database with pictures of such Probus coins how would I compare. Is it mentioned in RIC?
    Obv. PROBVS AVG
    Rev. MARS VLTOR
    Weight. 1.3 gr, Diameter 14 mm.
    Probus.jpg

    Post your quinarius coins or whatever you think is relevant. Thanks.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing Supporter

    I couldn't find one similar on Probvs.net. This bust type would be a Heroic Bust "Radiate, helmeted, cuirassed bust right, holding spear. Pseudo-Attic helmet. H3 D"

    I went to OCRE and they didn't list this bust style there. Sounds like RIC V 266 (var bust).

    In a Roma sale of a traditional laureate, draped bust right, they said "The quinarii of Probus are all very rare; the series was struck to celebrate Probus' triumph in Rome in AD 281."
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
    paschka, PeteB, DonnaML and 1 other person like this.
  4. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..hmm..interesting coin...i didn't think the quinarius made it to that point in history..to be called such anyway..i know there were small denominations of coins at that point tho..but i learn sumpin new every day...:) quinarius Cato the Elder 89 bc 001.JPG quinarius Cato the Elder 89 bc 002.JPG quinarius, moneyer M. Porcius Cato 89 BC
     

    Attached Files:

  5. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    The only Probus Quinarius I have ever owned

    Probus
    Bronze quinarius
    Obv:– AVR PROBVS AVG, laureate and cuirassed bust left, holding spear and shield
    Rev:– ORIENS AVG, Sol, raising hand and holding whip, in galloping quadriga left
    Minted in Rome (-) Emission 6. A.D. 281
    Reference(s) – Cohen 391. RIC 267 (R2).

    OK it is in pretty poor shape but it is likely the only quinarius of Probus I am likely to get.

    [​IMG]
     
    Alegandron, Orfew, DonnaML and 4 others like this.
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    What evidence do we have that these coins were made to circulate as cash based on their weight or being a quinarius as opposed to being a token or something else? If they were associated with the 281 triumph is there a historical reference on how they were used (for example thrown int the crowd, passed out to VIP's and retrievable for some Imperial favor???)? Earlier numismatists had a tendency to make assumptions which became gospel on the publication of their books. As rare as these are, I don't see how a proper study could be done but their place in the grand plan does not strike me as being as obvious as just a 1/4 (or, if 1/2, why are they not denarii?) normal standard piece for making small change. Are they rare due to being made in small numbers or were they mostly surrendered/redeemed and destroyed? Earlier in the century we saw well made asses which were linked to some celebration. I doubt most of these were spent in the market for only their 'face' value any more than the British Maundy coins were in their day.
     
    PeteB, ominus1 and gogili1977 like this.
  7. Aleph

    Aleph Active Member

    Appears to be Probus 5 in King. ‘Common’ relative other quinarii Probi. 12 examples noted. 95CF376E-BD7D-469C-B545-C3E72DB189EE.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  8. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Are these information is from some book or an article about Probus quinarii?
     
  9. Aleph

    Aleph Active Member

    Yes. Cathy King, Roman Quinarii. A book.
     
  10. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    King does not list any coins with this bust and reverse. Probus 5 cited above is a laureate and cuirassed bust and the obverse legend is different.
     
  11. acsearch.info

    acsearch.info Member

    @gogili1977, I hate to be the one to bring this up, but the coin does not look authentic. The style looks off. Surface and edges look like those of a pressed forgery.

    Simon
     
  12. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    the letter forms look a bit odd also.
     
  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Quinarius from the 2nd Punic War with Hannibal

    [​IMG]
    RR Anon AR Heavy Quinarius / Drachm / Half Quadrigatus 225-212 BCE 3.1g 18mm Janus dotted border Jupiter in Quadriga LEFT Victory ROMA Cr 28-4 S 35 SCARCE
     
    ominus1, DonnaML, Bing and 2 others like this.
  14. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    I found one similar example on acsearch for reverse comparing:
    4955136.jpg Probus.jpg
    I was recently disappointed with some odd Caracalla denarius, and now my situation is repeating itself. This hobby is very frustrating.

    Do you have pictures of examples of pressed fakes of such small coins to compare?
     
    ominus1, DonnaML, Bing and 1 other person like this.
  15. acsearch.info

    acsearch.info Member

    The Probus Quinarius from NAC with the same reverse has been withdrawn by the auction house.

    Pressed forgeries usually have an unusual flat and even surface and flan cracks. Here are a few examples:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Most of them have been altered to look old (like the corrosion marks on yours) or have fake patinas.
     
    Shea19, ominus1, DonnaML and 2 others like this.
  16. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    The original coin in this discussion is a modern forgery.

    Barry Murphy
     
    ominus1 and gogili1977 like this.
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Is the one posted by gogili also? I am no expert and have never touched a Probus quinarius but none shown here strike me as consistent in style or fabric with the run of the mill Probus antoniniani. I do wish that anyone from the rankest beginner to the best available expert would stop saying only that a coin is fake without commenting on the kind of fake it is. For example: Cast from a genuine coin, pressed from original modern dies or a dozen other options. Has there been test of the metal on these to see how they compare to the ants? What evidence is there that there are any original coins? Have they been found hoarded with other coins of the period? Do they show any evidence of being struck in the same facility as the regular coins?
     
  18. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    That one is fake as well.

    Barry Murphy
     
    gogili1977 and ominus1 like this.
  19. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Barry and others involved.
    I will probably avoid buying a rare coins in the near future, it seems that there are the most fakes.
    It is interesting how this particular fake was made, from the original coin, but I did not see another example of this obverse, or someone cut the whole coin. The edges of the coin do not look suspicious, as far as I understand the style and surface of the coin are most questionable?
    I will try to exchange the coin for another one.
     
  20. acsearch.info

    acsearch.info Member

    @gogili1977, keep your head up. Those fakes even fool major auction houses sometimes, as the example above shows. Your coin is of wrong style, hence from modern dies, and the surface/edges/flan cracks are typical for pressed fakes. I hope you will be able to exchange the coin or get your money back.
     
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Is there a reason that known fakes are not flagged on acsearch? I flagged one in comments but soon decided that no one was using that resource and other fakes of the same coin were allowed to stay as if they were real.
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5650131
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2733653
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=159464
     
    maridvnvm and ominus1 like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page