I have had a recent problem with an auction house listed with NumisBids and would like the members' opinions as to whether I have handled the situation correctly or should have done something else. Below is the email I sent to Numisbids, their response, and my follow up. On 6/11/2018 6:37 PM, Robert Cameron wrote: I would like to file a complaint against the auction house HD Rauch which is one of the auction houses you list for. I was the winning bidder for lot 257 in their E-Auction 26 running from March 15-17. When I went to their payment page, I clicked on the highlighted word paypal and was directed to make a PayPal payment to rauch@hdrauch.com. This I did. Later I was told that that was not their official PayPal payment address but that my payment went to a Gerard Blot in France. To make things worse, I was told that this was the 3rd time they had this problem and they usually got the payment corrected in 6-7 weeks. I went ahead and made another PayPal payment to them for 80.54 euros figuring they would again take care of the error. After contacting them several times and after getting no satisfaction from PayPal and getting no response from Gerard Blot, I finally asked that HD Rauch refund my first payment. They knew about payments being misdirected to a PayPal email on their site and did nothing to stop stop this from reoccurring. They should have done something about the problem after the first time it happened. I think it is very unprofessional on their part not to accept the responsibility for for their failure to stop further payments from being misdirected on their own payment site. I would like them to refund me the original 80.54 euros I paid them. I do not know if you have any influence on the auction houses you advertise for, but I think HD Rauch should not be allowed to walk away from this without accepting their responsibility. Dear Mr. Cameron, We're sorry to hear about the trouble with your payment to H.D. Rauch. Unfortunately we have limited abilities to help with this, as it relates to a payment processor and not only to the actions of an auction house. The entire case sounds very strange. Did PayPal or H.D. Rauch explain how a third party is able to receive PayPal payments to an email address under Rauch's control? Rauch@hdrauch.com is one of their usual customer service addresses -- we've used it to correspond with them. It is possible the domain in the email address was actually misspelled. You can verify this through PayPal. In that case, it is likely that it went to the wrong PayPal account, so Rauch has no ability to refund it. Certainly it's true that Rauch should fix any error on their site if they are inadvertently pointing people to pay to the wrong PayPal address. But PayPal should also be able to help with this. Payments sent to the wrong account by mistake must be very common (as in the banking world). We'd suggest pushing PayPal harder on this issue, if possible. They are the only ones who can control a refund if the payment was misdirected. Best regards, NumisBids, LLC Thank you very much for your quick reply. The PayPal address I sent payment to was rauch@hdrauch.com without a capital on the first R. The explanation that I received was that Gerard Blot had purchased from them and somehow inserted the email address as his and not theirs. This makes no sense to me, but the fact that it happened twice before and they did not correct it, puts the resposibility for my loss of funds on them. I realize that you probably do not have any way to presure them to do the right thing, but if you just let them know that you were contacted about the problem, it might mean something to them. I have already told them that I intend to pass this experience on to the coin collectors on the on line group I belong to, Coin Talk. We sometimes discuss problems with certain dealers or auction houses. Thank you again for your quick response. Bob Cameron Any suggestions as to how I might have handled this differently? Thanks for any responses. Bob
Honestly makes me glad I don't mess with all these auction houses. Ebay gets a bad rap and many of the "nicer" coins are not on it, but rarely do I ever have headaches as I seem to read on all these other auction sites for coins.
Sorry to hear about your situation, that is frustrating and I believe you are entirely correct to demand they fix the issue in a timely manor. If they do not have control over all the emails in their domain it speaks to larger problems with the organization. Additionally, they control the payment page and what paypal accounts it points to for payment. To your specific question on how you could have handled it differently. Maybe not make the second payment. You made the correct payment and did it through their process. If you have a receipt for the payment, then you have paid for the item and it should be shipped. You are not responsible for any mistakes that occur inside their payment processing system. With hindsight, maybe digging in your heels there would have produced different results. Regardless, I'm sorry to hear and hope it get's resolved quickly. In the meantime they are on my 'do not buy from' list. I will reconsider when I hear how they resolved the issue, but honestly, considering they run online auctions and do not have control over their domain is a giant red flag I doubt I will do business with them.
I believe you've generally done all that can be with any firm that uses an intermediary payment processor other than your bank. I personally would use patient persuasive technique with Paypal who can facilitate a refund, but it may take several patient attempts before you contact someone objective, who you can understand, without an attitude. I've had numerous payment problems over the years (still waiting for a Paypal class action settlement) with the auction houses and Paypal. Whenever possible, I found a personal check to be the preferred payment solution. It appears most will suggest a card payment, which has been a continuing source of problems for me. JMHO
I was actually signed on to bid but they never gave me full bidding rights.....honestly I'm glad, I dodged a bullet.
I'm unclear about why you wrote to Numisbids. Did you submit your bid through them or are you hoping they will intercede on your behalf?
When paying auction houses, I recommend using Transferwise. Saves you money (much better exchange rate) and the Transferwise customer service, though rarely needed, is extremely responsive and helpful.
This is exactly the reason I usually pay by check unless the coin is an inexpensive one. I don't mind waiting until the check clears before shipment.
I think you handled it about as well as you could have. You should press Paypal more on the issue to see if you can enact the refund that way. But, plain and simple Rauch is the only ones who can place an e-mail into their system for payments. It doesnt work any other way unless you typed it manually and by mistake.
Rauch@hdrauch.com and rauch@hdrauch.com are not the same Paypal recipient? That is pretty disturbing. I think Paypal needs to make some changes.
I thought about not making the second payment, but that would have delayed my receiving the coin I purchased by 6-7 weeks. Also, they said that the misdirected payment eventually was corrected, so I thought they would come through. In retrospect, though, I should have waited and not made the second payment. Thanks for your response.
I did file a claim with PayPal, and it took them about six hours to dismiss my claim. I had continual problems with PayPal when I was selling on eBay. I never filed a claim that was found in my favor. I only carry my account with them because international payments are easier. But, then again, maybe not.
When I have sent invoices through PayPal, I have found that incorrect capitalization sometimes sends the invoice to the wrong place.
