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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3128692, member: 112"]Well they used to that's for sure. And they did so for good reason, because it could be trusted for its accuracy. But that was was because for over 50 years the CDN based their reported values on one thing, and the same thing, every single time - actual current bid and ask numbers ! And dealers knew this, had always known it, most of them for most of their lives.</p><p><br /></p><p>But then they changed their value determination format, based it on different criteria entirely. Now if you were dealer, and knew THAT, would you still trust it ? If I was a dealer, I sure wouldn't ! So the question becomes, do most dealers <u>still</u> use it ?</p><p><br /></p><p>Undoubtedly some do. But I also suspect many do not any longer. Instead they rely on their own knowledge of the coin market and their own research into realized prices, and the current electronic dealer market to determine prices. But when they are facing a collector on the bourse, yeah they still get the grey sheet out and look at it because that is what the collectors have become used to them doing over the last 50 plus years. And collectors are comfortable with that. But that doesn't mean they are actually using it. Or, maybe they are, <u>on the bourse</u>. Because as a general rule prices in today's grey sheet are higher than current prices on the electronic markets. And a smart dealer will know he can benefit from that.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>This statement is often repeated, CDN themselves even point to it and say - that's why we changed. However, is it really true ? </p><p><br /></p><p>Well, to determine that the first thing one has to do is determine who is the "you" in that statement ? Is it a collector, or a dealer ? </p><p><br /></p><p>That question is easy enough to answer. Dealers managed, and I'm speaking in regard to the past here, to buy high quality coins for grey sheet all the time. They did it on a daily basis, and hourly basis even. But collectors, well, sometimes they could pull it off <u>if</u> they knew the right dealer. But most of the time about the best they could do to buy any coin was at about 10% <u>above</u> grey sheet. So the statement is kinda sorta accurate, but not really. At best it's misleading.</p><p><br /></p><p>Then you have to ask, how does one define "high quality" ? Is it a coin that is at the higher end of the grading spectrum, say above 65 ? Or is it a coin that is at the higher end of a single grade, such as a really nice 65 that is almost a 66 but not quite ? Or, does it refer to a coin that is under-graded ? Or is it more simple than that, does it cover all of those definitions ? Can it be taken at its general face value ?</p><p><br /></p><p>This question is a bit more complicated, far less clear. I say that because it depends on whom you ask exactly what they mean when they say it. In other words, how do they personally define high quality in that statement ? </p><p><br /></p><p>To the last possibility for definition that I used above I have to say no. It cannot be taken as a general statement because, high end or low end, a 65 typically sold for the same price - on the electronic dealer markets. And that was also true of a 66, a 67, and so on - they too sold for high bid, low ask. So the only thing you are left with is a coin that is under-graded, that is the only definition that can be used for that statement to be true. And yes it was true, still is true. </p><p><br /></p><p>But now ask yourselves this - would you expect a knowledgeable buyer, or seller, to pay, or ask, grey sheet for a clearly under-graded coin ? The answers to both questions is obviously no.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3128692, member: 112"]Well they used to that's for sure. And they did so for good reason, because it could be trusted for its accuracy. But that was was because for over 50 years the CDN based their reported values on one thing, and the same thing, every single time - actual current bid and ask numbers ! And dealers knew this, had always known it, most of them for most of their lives. But then they changed their value determination format, based it on different criteria entirely. Now if you were dealer, and knew THAT, would you still trust it ? If I was a dealer, I sure wouldn't ! So the question becomes, do most dealers [U]still[/U] use it ? Undoubtedly some do. But I also suspect many do not any longer. Instead they rely on their own knowledge of the coin market and their own research into realized prices, and the current electronic dealer market to determine prices. But when they are facing a collector on the bourse, yeah they still get the grey sheet out and look at it because that is what the collectors have become used to them doing over the last 50 plus years. And collectors are comfortable with that. But that doesn't mean they are actually using it. Or, maybe they are, [U]on the bourse[/U]. Because as a general rule prices in today's grey sheet are higher than current prices on the electronic markets. And a smart dealer will know he can benefit from that. This statement is often repeated, CDN themselves even point to it and say - that's why we changed. However, is it really true ? Well, to determine that the first thing one has to do is determine who is the "you" in that statement ? Is it a collector, or a dealer ? That question is easy enough to answer. Dealers managed, and I'm speaking in regard to the past here, to buy high quality coins for grey sheet all the time. They did it on a daily basis, and hourly basis even. But collectors, well, sometimes they could pull it off [U]if[/U] they knew the right dealer. But most of the time about the best they could do to buy any coin was at about 10% [U]above[/U] grey sheet. So the statement is kinda sorta accurate, but not really. At best it's misleading. Then you have to ask, how does one define "high quality" ? Is it a coin that is at the higher end of the grading spectrum, say above 65 ? Or is it a coin that is at the higher end of a single grade, such as a really nice 65 that is almost a 66 but not quite ? Or, does it refer to a coin that is under-graded ? Or is it more simple than that, does it cover all of those definitions ? Can it be taken at its general face value ? This question is a bit more complicated, far less clear. I say that because it depends on whom you ask exactly what they mean when they say it. In other words, how do they personally define high quality in that statement ? To the last possibility for definition that I used above I have to say no. It cannot be taken as a general statement because, high end or low end, a 65 typically sold for the same price - on the electronic dealer markets. And that was also true of a 66, a 67, and so on - they too sold for high bid, low ask. So the only thing you are left with is a coin that is under-graded, that is the only definition that can be used for that statement to be true. And yes it was true, still is true. But now ask yourselves this - would you expect a knowledgeable buyer, or seller, to pay, or ask, grey sheet for a clearly under-graded coin ? The answers to both questions is obviously no.[/QUOTE]
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