Price Guide Question

His question was answered numerous times. If he had to ask that question, then most of the other information offered in this thread should be very valuable and not off topic "crappola".

 

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Like it or not, slabbing is part and parcel of the current coin market, more so as prices go up the range. Information about the various grading companies and relative valuations is relevant to price guides, market pricing, auction results, and what a potential buyer or bidder might consider paying. Isn't that bottom line? What a person will pay when buying, or what a person will receive when selling? Grade matters. Sometimes the holder matters too.

What you call crappola, others may see as valuable and useful information. The information I am sharing was earned by paying a good deal of tuition. By sharing it on the forum, I would hope that a few readers may not have to pay the same dues that I did. Others may have had a very different experience and their own lessons to share.

As to buying an mint state 1886-O Morgan raw, that is fine for those that are excellent graders. For an average group of collectors, that might be 10% to 40% of the group, towards the higher number for experienced veterans (in general, that is ten years or more), towards the lower number for novices (in general, that is less than five years in the hobby).

 

I always wondered if my 56 Belair would increase in value if I could 'slab' it....?

 

I use the Greysheet/companion Blue sheet and reference the major auction sites for prices realized. I agree with GD's statement on "slabbed" coins. They offer no real value to the Coin/token itself.

 

Well said.

I've been collect on and off for about 55 years, and steady for about the last 20.
I would NOT buy a raw 1886-O Morgan.
Even with quite a bit of experience I would not feel competent to do that.
But I am competent enough to look at a slabbed coin and decide if it appeals to me when I mix in all the other factors besides grade and price.

I'll be picking up an 1864 "L" IHC this weekend that's in a MS-62 PCGS slab.
A very nice looking coin as I remember.
Evenly brown toned; clean surfaces.
So why only MS-62?
It's got a nasty gash on the neck.
But by balancing all of it's characteristics I decided it is very acceptable in my meager IHC set.
Pictures Sat or Sun.

 

For me slabs perform several functions:
1. Most importantly, they authenticate coins.
2. Within a particular TPG's guidelines, they pronounce coins as "original" (unaltered and uncleaned).
3. They give a starting point for grading. You may not agree with their assigned grade, but you can be confident it's close.

For this warm fuzzy feeling I AM willing to pay a bit extra.

EXAMPLE: I wanted an early US coin just to say I had one from the 1790's and to add to my type set.
To that end I found that the least expensive example would be a 1798 Cent, Second Hair.
I bought one raw. It had a REALLY interesting and massive die crack.
The condition of the sale was that the coin would slab or I could return it for a full refund (very reputable dealer so no worries about getting the refund).
It didn't slab (NGC) because the surface had a coating that prevented it from being fully evaluated.
Took everything back to him and, with some additional money, I got an already slabbed example of the same coin.
If I had bought the slabbed coin in the first place it would have saved me the annoyance (took 3+ months) and expense (submission fee).

 

When dealing with rare coins it is smarter to get it slabbed, just to have it authenticated. And if you are against slabs, okay, just crack it out.
It is better to have somewhat of an insurance policy, with having it in a slab proving authenticity and a good feel for what the grade of the coin is.
Now as to paying extra for a coin in a slab, I would do it. I work on registry sets, so it is cheaper to buy it pre slabbed

 

I don't believe I ever wrote that high value coins ($2k and up) are only sent to PCGS, or only should be sent to PCGS or should only be bought in PCGS holders. However, if you interpreted it that way, a good many others may have gotten the same impression, so I appreciate the clarification.

There are times when it makes a lot of sense to submit to NGC. A liner coin (a coin in between two grades) might go 65 at PCGS and 66 at NGC. For a lot of series the coin will sell for more at auction in the NGC 66 holder vs. the PCGS 65. For an entire collection a few bumps up in grade can make up for any price differential due to holders. NGC also grades tokens, so-called dollars, and GSA dollars in the government holder. NGC also has ten times the market share of other companies in world coins.

As for other companies, there are coins where the grade isn't that big a price factor, but authentication is. That's where the old ANACS used to really shine because they charged less. A lot of key date Lincolns and better date Indians were sent to the old ANACS, including a good many very nice coins. The new ANACS charges almost as much as the big two for many coins, so there isn't as much a reason to submit to them.

There was one guy I knew, who loved to shop for freshly graded high value NGC coins. He had such a sharp eye, that he found coins that would mostly cross at the same grade to PCGS. The NGC coins typically sold for less than the same coin would in the other holder, so that was the profit. The other side of that story, is that after that guy swept through a dealer's case, most of the rest of the coins had a much, much lower chance of crossing at the same grade. Multiply that effect by a hundred such guys, playing the same game, and those are the coins that are typically in dealer cases when the average collector shows up to buy.

 

wow, this has gotten off the topic of what i brought up, but it has made for some VERY good reading.....

some VERY experienced guys making some very important points back and forth....

dont stop now...lol

 

I agree, this thread has gone way off topic; however, to keep in the spirit of the moment I have to add my two cents

Personally, I will pay more for PCGS. Why? I don't really have a good reason. Perhaps I feel they are a little better, perhaps a little more consistent, most likely it is dain bramage though. I know there are other companies out there that do good work, and in some cases better work. But, I like PCGS so, I will pay more for their name. The question to me is how much more... the answer - not much!

Now, certified coins in general: As long as it is a reputable company I will always pay more for a certified MS65 than I will what I think is a raw MS65. As good as I would like to think I am at grading, I am no pro. Further, when I look at a coin I am biased. I am looking at something I like - something I want. Therefore I am willing to pay for assurance from a third party that the coin is what I think it is - genuine and at or very near the grade I think it is. However, one must realize that a certified coin can be improperly graded/slabbed, etc… There are a ton of them out there. I think far too few people attempt to grade a coin themselves before purchasing a certified coin, and that is a mistake. I am willing to concede one or perhaps even two points - but, I have seen coins listed as AU that I would say are at best XF and the other way around. Those coins I will not buy unless the seller is willing to accept a reasonable price for the TRUE grade.

Bottom line - you need to look at what you buy and make sure it is, to you, worth the agreed price. That price may be well over or under any price guide out there.

Now, back to the original topic – there is no definitive guide for me. I consult my Redbook, Greysheet (or Bluesheet), Ebay (both current and completed listings), PCGS, ect… I look everywhere to see what the asking prices are and sales prices. Based off of a little research I can come to what I think is good price. This will let me know whether IMO I have a good deal or need to move on, and if dealing face-to-face with someone I have arguments to backup my offer.

 

No surprise.
Threads tend to have a life of their own.
Point them one way and they often wander off on a tangent.
But as someone noted above, the original question has been answered several times.

An additional incentive for me to buy PCGS (or NGC) slabbed coins is that I have several NGC Registry Sets so I have to have coins from those two TPGs.
At least for the sets I put into the registry.