Precision grading

This is how they do coins today, or at least how they helped design the 2009 UHR.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

No, no, no, and sometimes. Unfortunately, many folks are blind or don't know how to tip and rotate a coin during exam. They cannot see anything no matter its size. For that reason, against my wishes, you'll find ICG coins with "crapped up" labels such as: XF-45 Details and long scratch next to the right side of the eagle on the reverse. LOL. A slight exaggeration but if I had my way it would just say "scratched." Let the collector learn something by looking for it on either side!

Don't take anyone's word for it. Hand a coin to a prominent, nationally respected dealer and ask him if it is original, authentic, and its grade. You'll be shocked how fast he answers you question. That is the "gut" reaction (immediate impression) from any knowledgeable, experienced numismatist to a coin he is handed.

 

Agreed...but then we see coins in threads here and at other forums where they are CLEARLY mis-graded. By 2 or more numbers, I don't mean off by 1 grade.

Do graders get breaks every hour or every 2 hours or whatever to rest their eyes, reset, etc. ? From what I have read -- and it could be wrong -- but there's alot of pressure to grade hundreds of coins a day.

 

Unless of course they start putting on a show getting ready to talk the price down thinking you're looking to sell

 

While that is true, it would be a separate grade. So there would be the technical one set by computer, and the subjective one, set by human examination.

 

And the collectors who pooh-pooh any coin where the two grades don't agree, and the collectors who compete for the widest gap, and, and, and...

 

And do we always agree now?

 

2 grades off? I don't think you'll find that many for two main reasons, you are looking at images and 99% of us are not qualified to grade coins at a major TPGS.

As for grading rooms. It probably depends who you are. When I started at NGC, I was encouraged to get up and take a break WHENEVER I wanted. We didn't punch a clock either. That was before "moderns" were graded and the volume of coins increased. I hear it is much different over there now.

 

No point in a computer grade if a human has to give one as well. If anything you would just make the humans skills lazy. The computers are great for finding stolen things resubmitted or helping with fakes, even a private grade or evaluation for the graders may not be the worst idea of all time, but the last thing we need is which grade means more the humans or the computers etc.

I've mentioned it many times before, but I will never understand why there seems to be such a push to replace humans with computers in everything. Computers aren't better at many things, they get hacked, they break, and you could write a dissertation about what a bad idea putting the coin market in the hands of programmers and removing actual expert graders from the equation.

How many world class and I mean actual world class graders do we think are also expert computer programmers who could understand the code inside and out?

 

As a software engineer of 32 years, currently developing AI software related to imaging, who tied former PCGS president Ron Guth for 1st in NGC's grading contest at the FUN show, how much credibility do I have?

 

How many clones do you have?

 

Because doubling your number of humans means doubling your salary and benefits costs, plus any training costs, while doubling your number of computers means... buying one more set of computers, and paying a tiny bit more for electricity and maintenance. Or upgrading to a newer model that costs the same as the one you bought two years ago, but runs your AI code four times as fast.

 

Yes for the companies that makes sense, for the outside people wishing a company would makes no sense.

 

The graders would work WITH the computer programmers, just like the auto experts work with them.

A bunch of coin graders would tell for each particular coin what they look for and the programmers would then write the code that would tell the computer what to look for. It would be "smart" enough to know how to scan for luster vs. reflectivity....to distinguish bag marks from polishing marks....to look for rub vs. deep coin gouges from the bag.

 

And if you're not a top notch programmer that wants to slip in backdoors? The number of people that could potentially do it are few and far between. For all the people who complain to few control the hobby, this could significantly condense it.

There is a role computers can and do play in this hobby and a very limited number of people good enough at both things for it. AI as a tool can be a big asset, as a crutch and the driver of things that's not a great path

 

Regarding your finishing tied for 1st in that grading contest....the Emperor is MOST displeased with your effort.

 

No, because there are some things a computer isn't good at, you still need the human eyes to deal with the subjective factors. The computer would only do the quantitative work, noting bag marks and such, significantly reducing the time human eyes would have to spend on it. Although @Insider seems to be pretty fast in his evaluation, it's because he's had years of looking at coins.

 

John Skelton, posted: "No, because there are some things a computer isn't good at, you still need the human eyes to deal with the subjective factors. The computer would only do the quantitative work, noting bag marks and such, significantly reducing the time human eyes would have to spend on it."

OK Guys, here is a thought. No brag just fact. With just a little training, any monkey (ME) with a set of basic standards written or based on experience can break down all the attributes of a coin good ENOUGH to put an acceptable grade on it. That's because long time graders can look at a coin and evaluate its "strike" into: strong; normal and nothing special; slightly weak; weak; and flat in fractions of a second. Same goes for luster. Same goes for originality.

It takes more time - perhaps an additional 10 -15 seconds using a stereo scope w/florescent light to look very closely for repairs, hidden marks, etc. That said, if you hand me a coin and give me the time (whatever I need, usually much less than a minute) I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NOT ONE THING ON THAT COIN THAT A COMPUTER WILL FIND THAT I MISSED! But a computer can do it faster.

Unfortunately, a computer will not be able to decide that a scratch or rim nick does not matter enough to ignore. Eventually, there will be computer-aided grading but I'll be long dead before you can stick a coin in a box and get an acceptable grade. IMO, it will never replace the "eye" of those way above my pay grade. So buy the coin, not the computer-generated opinion on the label.