Potentially dangerous forgery

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Tejas, Jul 28, 2021.

  1. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

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  3. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Many thanks for spotting and posting this.
    Without the clear description (although this is irrelevant, as objects like this will most likely be sold again without "disclaimer") I would have not seen any signs of forgery.

    No casting signs (they do say that they hand strike them). Flow lines visible. Signs of cleaning. And even if it's mentioned that "INTENTIONALLY DIFFERENTIATE IN WEIGHT AND SIZE FROM THE ANCIENT COINS" I checked on OCRE and size and weight are in the standards.

    What are the red flags for this coin, if any? Is there a way to distinguish them?
    I know the "know the coin or know the seller" rule but seeing objects like this makes me 99% sure I will not buy (genuine) coins from rare rulers.
     
  4. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    This is not a cast of a genuine coin, it's likely a struck forgery from modern dies.

    Usually for such examples the style is the red flag. The obverse style is subtly wrong for the issue. Bust is too thin. Eagle on reverse is pretty far from genuine examples too.

    Real Marciana portraits tend to look very much like Trajan.
     
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  5. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Thank you. Noticed that the diadem is differently shaped from the OCRE examples. However, for a person that hasn't seen too many Marciana coins, this is indeed dangerous.
     
  6. ominus1

    ominus1 When in Rome, do as the Romans do Supporter

    it is a very convincing repro..
     
  7. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Very different in style, which is apparent to those who have studied the issue. Compare it to this genuine example:
    Marciana CONSECRATIO denarius.jpg
     
  8. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    That is probably true, but still I think anyone not particularly familiar with the issues could be fooled:

    A genuine piece (picked from acsearch)

    Screenshot 2021-07-28 at 14.09.53.png

    the modern repro:
    Screenshot 2021-07-28 at 14.10.30.png
     
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  9. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    I appreciate that the sellers are being honest about the coin being a reproduction. But, even if people are making reproductions for this purpose, if they do not clearly mark the item with some kind of "reproduciton" indicator, then they are part of the problem.
     
    Roman Collector, DonnaML and ambr0zie like this.
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Convincing.

    I am not an expert on the "style" or the coinage of this period (I enjoy Roman Republic).

    However I looked at the "Flow Lines" (Die Stretch Marks) from my metal manufacturing experience. They looked like they were molded into the letters and a few other strategic spots. Also, the surface treatment / patina(?) looks to be an optical illusion to reinforce the "flow lines".

    My thoughts...
     
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  11. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I agree, and why would a reproduction have a fake patina and discolourations, which otherwise indicate age?
     
  12. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Thank God I'm not an ancients collector. Good luck to those of you who are.
     
  13. Sidney Osborne

    Sidney Osborne Well-Known Member

    Can be found in specially marked cereal boxes......
     
  14. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Yikes! Great flow lines that looked good to me. I would have gotten suckered for sure
     
  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    The manufacturers of these "reproductions" are obviously well aware that their buyers are likely to sell them on as genuine examples, and I'd be willing to bet that that's their intended market in the first place. Otherwise they would mark their products as copies, and would refrain from the artificial aging. But if they did so, their sales would probably go down to almost nothing. I believe that they're knowing facilitators of fraud.
     
  16. Sidney Osborne

    Sidney Osborne Well-Known Member

    Aiding and abetting...
     
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  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    You should write to the local prosecutor's office in Plovdiv to see if they're interested in pursuing a case.

    Note that this seller does not ship to the USA. I wonder if doing so would break some law against importing unmarked copies.
     
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  18. romismatist

    romismatist Well-Known Member

    Agree with everyone's thoughts here. Selling these is knowingly participating in fraud. "Novelty strike" is not enough of a reason to sell a convincing fake with applied patina but without some kind of reproduction mark on the coin that cannot be easily removed.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  19. JD Bartlett

    JD Bartlett Member

    It is nothing but a counterfeit, sold as a "reproduction" to the original buyer, who will, in all probability, sell it as an original.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  20. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    I don't understand why you criticize these magnificent fakes. After all, the company (coinlandia) is "CERTIFIED BY THE REGIONAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM, PLOVDIV (BULGARIA) PERMITTING US TO SELL AND EXPORT THE COINS." Please admire their fantastic technique!

    A87B118A-8245-4284-8F22-4974AD8EFEBB.jpeg
     
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  21. john65999

    john65999 Well-Known Member

    “PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL OF OUR COINS ARE HIGH QUALITY, HIGH STANDARD, HAND STRUCK (HAMMERED) NEW REPRODUCTIONS OF ANCIENT ARTIFACTS. WE ARE CERTIFIED BY THE "REGIONAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL MUSEUM, PLOVDIV (BULGARIA)" PERMITTING US TO SELL AND EXPORT THE COINS, WHICH ARE NOT A MONUMENT OF CULTURE, AND DO INTENTIONALLY DIFFERENTIATE IN WEIGHT AND SIZE FROM THE ANCIENT COINS. COINLANDIA IS ADDING VALUE FOR THE COIN COLLECTOR BY OFFERING QUALITY WITH UNTOUCHED AUTHENTIC FEEL AT A FRACTION OF THE ACTUAL PRICE.”

    sellers description. Might be a bit misleading for those that do not read the fine print..like the time i spent 12.50 and 8.00 shipping for "solid sterling silver" rings, but in the description he says base metal and solid sterling silver plate (not) i lost on that claim with ebay and had to eat it...also those 1/24 of 24 kt gold coins made by a foreign= mint people think they are 1/10 oz 24 kt, yet they contain less than 3 cents in gold and sell in the 40-75 each range...buyer beware, read he description, pay by pay pal, be wary!
     
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