Post your latest ancient!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by The Meat man, Mar 15, 2022.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Nice coin. I recently got a wretched one (fourrée) for cheap and though a fourrée, it still had the serrations (since the photo, I've cleaned up the BD):

    RR - Mamilia 6 fourree Ulysses Dec 2022 (0).jpg
    Roman Republic Fourrée Serratus Denarius
    C. Mamilius Limetanus
    (84-83 B.C.) (see notes) Rome Mint (?) Draped bust of Mercury right, caduceus over shoulder, A behind / C·M[A]MIL LIMET͡AN Ulysses walking right holding staff and extending hand to dog Argus on ground before him. eBay Dec. 2022
    Attribution: Fourrée issue withmuch base core exposed; for official issue's prototype: cf. Crawford 362/1;cf. RSC Mamilia 6; cf. Sydenham 741. (2.86 grams / 20 x 17 mm) This issue is common as a fourrée, with many examples online, auctions, etc.

    While researching this, I looked at a lot of these. Your coin made me look again; doing a basic acsearch for "limetanus" I found a couple that appear to lack the serrations (although it could be badly-cropped photos):

    There were 901 hits for "limetanus" and I found these at the top 50 or so in the search, so there might be others. You might try to find a die-match - that always reassures me when I have a coin under scrutiny.

    Here's my NF post on this and other Republican issues from this era here:
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  3. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I would agree that the one with the big head is a cast copy of an ancient, so good for jewelry.

    The good news is that the other one looks genuine. It is an issue of Kushan Empire and shows the goddess Nana. Here is a Vcoins listing of the same type, which will get you started on attributing and dating it.

    If you really want to go deep, here is an academic paper on this coin:

    The Kushans held a vast empire between the empires of China and Persia (and Rome). A very interesting time and place - here's a Wikipedia article to get started with:

    Welcome to ancients!
    Homer2 and expat like this.
  4. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

    Good research. The first one has remnants of the serrations but the second doesn’t. It appears the serrations were part of the dies so if it was a thick planchet, it might have struck the design but not spread to fill the edges. I’m not concerned about authenticity because I know the dealer well and he knows a lot.
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
  5. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Yours does look authentic, I'd agree. As for serrations being "part of the dies" I think there is some debate on this, with most sources I see leaning towards the serrations being done by hand on each planchet with a file or some other mechanical means - which seems horrendously time-consuming, but the Mint could probably afford a lot of employees (or slaves). As a counterfeit-prevention measure it seems kind of pointless, as my fourree example shows.

    Or maybe there were other reasons for the serrations - here is a very interesting article about serrations I just found -
  6. Gallienus


    Thanks for the write-up. Although I've seen nicer denarii serrata, you've provided the best writeup I've ever seen and thanks for the link to the Bertolami article by
    Andrea Pancotti & Patrizia Calabria.

    I used to have a Denarius Serratus but unfortunately sold it in late 1998 when I thought I lost interest in Ancients. Since then I've never been able to replace it!
  7. Gallienus


    And now for the real reason for going online. I'm considering doing an educational display at one of the major coin shows on "Coins of the Roman Imperatorial Era".

    This was the time of the dictators and collapse of the Republic. To this end, I was hoping to find a decent denarius of Brutus, the assassin of Julius. Finally snagged one at the Leu auction yesterday!


    Brutus, 43-42 BC. Denarius (Silver, 19 mm, 3.79 g, 1 h), L. Plaetorius Cestianus, moneyer. Military mint traveling with Brutus and Cassius in western Asia Minor or northern Greece, late summer-autumn 42.

    Of course, the ultimate of this person/ Imperator is the ID-MAR denarius, but this is beyond my price range at the moment!
  8. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Gorgeous coin, one of the coolest ones, I have seen posted here. Congrats.
    Gallienus likes this.
  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Gallienus likes this.
  10. Gallienus


    Thanks. My research is preliminary but I believe it is the closest one could get to an ID-MAR in terms of striking date as well as the same moneyer. At least Crawford listed them closely. This is Crawford 508/2 while the ID-MAR is 508/3. I'm trying to get some use out of my newly-acquired Crawford 2nd edition (the cheaper but better ed.):rolleyes:

    Even if I had an ID-MAR, I'd be too afraid to carry it to displays anyhow.
    The Meat man and Bing like this.
  11. Exceptional coin! Love the full beading on both sides too.
    Gallienus likes this.
  12. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I never learn...
    s-l1600 (11).jpg
    Curtis, expat, Gallienus and 3 others like this.
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Au contraire. You always learn, but your memory is like mine. Old and cantankerous.
    expat, Kentucky and Broucheion like this.
  14. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio Supporter

    After several failed attempts, I won a one dot club aes grave. It is not the smallest cast coin in my collection, but it is close.
    20230523_150047.jpg 20230523_150119.jpg
    Greek Italy. Uncertain Umbria or Etruria. AE Cast Uncia, c. 3rd century BC.
    Obv. Club, Rev. Dot.
    TV 173; Uncertain Umbria, Almond shaped
    Haeb. pl. 81,42.43.
    11.49 grams
    23.0 mm.
    R. Rare. Attractive earthy green patina. About EF.

    For size comparison shown next to a Mars / Mars Semis.
    sand, Curtis, expat and 8 others like this.
  15. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

    After groping around the considerable warren after entering a rabbit hole, perusing the many fakes and the infamous Black Sea hoard, and after an expert in the field decreed it genuine, I present my newest Greek
    THRACE. Apollonia Pontika. Circa 450-400 BC. AR
    Drachm (14mm, 3.16 gm). Upturned anchor;
    crayfish to left; A to right / Gorgoneion facing with lolling tongue and head surrounded by serpents.
    SNG BM Black Sea 153: SNG Berry 391
  16. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    That looks like a pretty decent group, as far as these go, I bet a good proportion will be keepers. It wouldn't surprise me if that crusty green one turns out to be AR or a nice Billon Ant. Whenever I saw one with totally different encrustations (but presumably from the same metal detectorist), I paid special attention. I found a good number of AR Denarii and Antoniniani in ordinary Balkan uncleaned lots that started out as big green "crusties" just like that.

    Well worth the extra investment of effort in research, this is a fun coin! I don't have one myself, but I really love these especially-Medusa-like Gorgoneia.
    Kentucky and expat like this.
  17. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I'm still waiting for a few "latest ancients" to arrive in the mail, but here's my latest to have arrived.

    It combines my two favorite subcollections: (1) the history numismatic literature & knowledge as embodied in "object biography"; and (2) "captives" on Roman coins.

    This is a Bar Kochba rebellion "middle bronze" (25mm, 9.88g), struck in 133/4 CE, Year 2 of Shimon Bar Kochba's (Simon ben Kosiba) rebellion to overthrow Roman rule during Hadrian's reign. (Notice the remnants of the undertype portrait!)

    Hendin 160a Triptych (NYS).jpg

    The thing I love is that it was overstruck on a Roman Provincial "Judaea Capta" coin with a portrait of Domitian, struck in Caesarea Paneas (87/8 CE) under Agrippa II, celebrating the Flavian (Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian) victory over Judaea during the "First Jewish Revolt" c. 70 CE.

    I believe I've even been able to find the obverse die used on the "host coin" / undertype. See specimen 7 of RPC 2285:

    C - Hendin 160a Bar Kochba Overstrike RPC II 2285 Undertype Triptych.jpg
    caption in error: 2285 not 2258!

    Another thing that made it very attractive to me:

    It was ex-David Hendin Collection (with his handwritten circular collector tag) and was also "plate coin" No. 160A in his 1987 edition of Guide to Biblical Coins:

    Hendin GBC2 160a Square.jpg
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
    paschka, svessien, sand and 5 others like this.
  18. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

    Excellent acquisition. Undertype is pretty clear and a plate coin makes it even more special. Lovely coin, thanks for sharing it with us.
    Curtis likes this.
  19. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    just cleaned up


    Constantine I
    A.D. 322-323
    19mm 3.0g
    CONSTAN-•TINVS AVG; laureate head right.
    SARMATIA DEVICTA; Victory advancing r., holding trophy, palm branch, spurning captive std. on ground to right.
    In ex. S✶AR
    RIC VII Arles 257

    There is a dot in the obverse legend--•TINVS AVG

    The Sarmatia coins were issued from London, Lyon, Arles, Trier and Sirmium.

    “When Constantine learned that the Sarmatians, who live near Lake Maeotis, had sailed across the Danube and were pillaging his territory, he led his army against them…he killed many, took more prisoners and put the rest to flight.” Zosimus 2:21

    "Licinius did not accept the gold coinage on which Constantine emblazoned his victory against the Sarmatians, but melted it down and converted it to other uses, giving no answer to those who faulted him with regard to this than that he did not wish foreign affairs to have a place in domestic business." Petrus Patricius (circa A.D. 500- 565) The Lost History of Peter the Patrician F 208
    svessien, Clavdivs, sand and 6 others like this.
  20. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

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  21. Gallienus


    Very interesting and possibly a unique find. The book photo isn't too useful as was customary for those times.
    Curtis likes this.
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