Post and explain your "out of the ordinary" circulated US issue(s) or varieties

Here's an interesting oddity from the mint's early years. While year-to-year overdates were actually common-place, this coin is not really an overdate, but a re-punched date due to the engraver initially using the date punches for a $10/Eagle. During the "punching process", the engraver realized the goof, and simply employed the right-sized "$5/Half Eagle" punches over the mistake. There are two major varieties of this Half Eagle "large date over small" and "small" dates. The former is a bit scarcer in terms of existing population and is of considered more popular due to the miss-step.

 

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So, to clarify what you are saying, could you show the coin in a TPG holder? Or at least give us some of the grading info - is it graded or details - did the second TPG come up with the same grade? I think I understand some of the basis of you research - very cool, but how do know or why do you suspect it's counterfeit rather than the product of just another die pairing. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't understand that from your article. You say it's an "improbable" die pairing. I would ask: why? and improbable doesn't mean impossible or even close to that, so why couldn't it have been struck at the SF mint? Just asking?

Looking it in the PCGS list it certainly would be worth counterfeiting in small numbers if you could get and AU or better grade. Good money, but not so astronomical to arouse suspicion maybe? But then, the numbers for full grade examples in AU or better are so low that counterfeiting it successfully in large numbers would be counter-productive, wouldn't it. Kind of like finding a huge hoard. hmmm?

Interesting esoteric research for sure.

 

That's wonderful!

 

Called an impossible die pairing due to the 1872 Philly obverse and 1875 SF reverse and wrong year reeding- no logical way the mint(s) would have combined these three elements to strike this "coin". And then when several are found with the same circulation marks on each stamped from the remade dies that aids in confirmation of counterfeit. In addition, three example were sold by three known bad sellers on eBay (of previous counterfeits). Of the 22 "varieties" of similar struck fakes from my Mass 1787 "half cent" to a couple of 1836 "Gobrechts" the largest number of any one variety documented is 9 (1798 "S-158" large cent). The sellers seem to be very patient... And, the largest price paid for one, a 1793 "S-5" large cent was $14K+.

 

Excellent. Thank you for the complete explanation. It makes all the difference in clarity. So, wow, it got by PCGS and with a high grade at that. PCGS population of only 5! Darn! And they even put a little toning on it! Which slab was it in when you obtained it - ANACS or PCGS?

 

PCGS.

 

The fake 1872 S half-dollar has also been seen in NGC slabs. And it is truly an impossible die pairing. This counterfeit was discussed extensively in the first issue of the Gobrecht Journal last year. In that article they traced the obverse and reverse dies to the particular varieties that were used to create the fake dies. The obverse die on the counterfeit is in an earlier die state than the genuine 1872 P half-dollar that was used for the model. The reverse die is from a late die stage of the 1875 S half-dollar. So on the counterfeit you supposedly have a die pair with the obverse used early in 1872 and the reverse used late in 1875. If the counterfeit was real the 1872 obverse die would have had to have been sitting in San Francisco for three years, used in late 1875 to make this coin, then shipped to Philadelphia and used to strike 1872 half dollars in 1875.

 

On top of everything else - wildly different grade! Wow!

 

oops - see next post

 

Hey, Wouldn't PCGS have to compensate someone who had one of those counterfeit 1872S half dollars in a PCGS holder? How would that work? How about ANACS? or NGC (someone said they have accepted them as well)?

 

Unfortunately I sold it recently I can let you know if I find another as I’m always on the hunt for the CSA varieties. I know @C.B.D is too

 

Was just going to mention this. Leave it to the die variety experts to catch this as this is a scary good fake that I was aware of from my LSCC membership

 

I would think they should, but the terms of the guarantee would control. Anybody tried it?

 

Yes, they both (as well as NGC) have warranties/ guarantees of authentication. I have been involved with a couple of PCGS ones (including a 14K+ 1793 "S-5" large cent) where the owner was reimbursed- had to show a receipt of what the actual purchase price was.

 

Condor. You are so informative. I'm liking you

 

Didn't know people still lived in caves

 

Very intense homework. A+ thanks

 

hmm...... Trying to discourage folks from asking questions or admitting they don't know everything about everything, are we?

 

NAh. I'm cute like that. Not throwing darts. Sorry fiddlehead. We good?

 

Sure enough. Thanks for responding. Apology gratefully accepted