Post an Ike

Oh come on man. Why'd you have to go and revive this when we're starting a new one?!

 

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Please post here...

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/post-an-eisenhower-ikes.281455/

 

Super color, I know this post is old but this is nice.

 

Just picked these up. Haven't decided which ones to cut out yet. Purchased them sort of out of spite to prove a point to CladKing... $6.75 per set.

 

A couple more 1975D Ikes:

 

I guess because there were already 1700+ post in this one.

 

As with any modern issue, the business strikes in higher grades are an extreme challenge to locate, and Ikes are no exception. These very large and heavy planchets bang against each other then are fed into presses at high speed, then into bins, and on into counting machines, bags, then transported, fed into rolling machines, and on and on....it,s a miracle that any exist at all in the higher grades of 67 on up. If you,r one of the more fortunate ones who own a business strike Ike in 67 or better, you own a true modern rarity, which in my opinion, will continue on it,s upward path. With this in mind, and all the new Ike collectors coming on board, I believe this series is destined to become a rival for the Morgan and Peace dollar series.

 

Yes. Cool information. It's fun trying to grade these things. Some of the hits came from before the coin was struck and others came after they were struck. Not sure I'm using the correct term but I call the former, chatter.
It's also interesting that the silver issues are held to a higher grading standard.

 

Yes, and like you mentioned about chatter, could it be that the Silver planchets were made with a bit more care than business planchets? Also the Silvers were handled less, then packaged soon after strike? Silvers have less mintage but are more easily found than business strikes in high grades. I think they were handled far fewer times then business strikes were. I also love the proofs, as they evolved from primitive methods to precise modern methods in only 8 years!

 

Personally, I think it has to do simply with the Vickers hardness of the metals. Nickel is a hardening metal, whereby silver is a soft metal. When tumbled, the planchets might have an equal chance of getting dinged up by one another, but when struck, the silver would flow more readily than the nickel composite.

 

"Chatter" is a good word for it.

I usually call it "chicken scratches" especially when it's around the periphery of the coin. It is indicative of the weak strike in this area but it also shows up on the highest points of the design since they aren't usually well struck either.

Planchets are intentionally roughed up to make them easier for the machinery to handle them. Usually this roughness isn't completely obliterated by the strike. Ikes are notorious for chatter.

It's a good idea to be cognizant of this marking even if you don't mind it.m The grading services don't necessarily detract for it so you can see truly ugly coins in high grade holders sometimes. They also don't detract for weak strikes sometimes so the eagle's feathers may be almost smooth and letters not fully struck on the obverse.

As long as you like the coin it doesn't matter but be careful not to overpay for coins that others might find unattractive.

 

I disagree that the Ike will ever truly rival Morgan dollar (or even Peace dollar -- which is possibly viewed as a Morgan little sister) popularity. The elements of a strong collectible simply aren't there.

1) Long series: Morgan dollars ran for 17 consecutive years, then an additional year in 1921; even Peace Dollars ran for a total of 10 (albeit non-consecutive) years. By contrast, Ikes were "sorta" issued for eight years.

2) Circulation: Silver (Morgan/Peace) dollars were circulated and underwent two or three periods of silver recovery. By contrast, Ike dollars were generally met with disdain in circulation, as they were viewed as inconvenient and heavy (the general view of change in modern America, but to a greater extent due to size and bulk).

3) High Grade specimen availability: This is a weird one to explain, and if Jim happens to stumble upon this thread, he might be able to reinforce what I'm saying. If a collectible is "too rare," it won't have a marketplace. This is prevalent in the gem world, where ultra rare gems sell for significant discounts to what one would expect for their degree of quality, simply due to the lack of available supply, upon initial discovery. As jewelers decide that they are willing to incorporate or embrace the material in their work, demand picks up, and the gemstone eventually (rather quickly after someone makes a market for the specific stone) sees its price rise in accord with materials of similar color depth, durability and scarcity. I think the same would apply for Ikes. The market for truly high end Ikes will always be limited, as demand isn't there to pressure supply to increase. People don't actively search for MS-68/69 grade Ikes, as collectors simply assume they don't exist. The premium for MS-67 Ikes isn't enough to really submit Ikes in massive quantities (at the non-dealer level), as collectors would be highly disappointed to receive an MS-65 (or, yikes, lower) grade. This especially affects things like FEV or Peg legs, as series collectors will view those as specialty coins which aren't absolutely necessary to complete a set, similar to VAMs for Morgan/Peace.

4) Lower Grade specimen availability: For non-elite collectors of the series, coins can be found by going to your local store, coin show, or even bank, without much struggle. You can regularly find MS-63 Ikes still in "meant for circulation" bank rolls or bags. Morgans (and I suppose, Peace, too) are highly collectible, as there are different marketplace entry points for different styles of collectors. By contrast, Ikes have basically two vastly distinct markets: mass and elite. The mass market is generally satisfied by CRH set filling or slight premium ($3 or less per coin) UNC collecting. The elite market is basically filled by the same plus super premium MS-67/68 coins. The market for MS-65/66 coins is thin, and the market for MS-64 and lower coins is virtually non-existent.

5) Perceived scarcity: With the exception of 1973, 1975 and errors, production of each major coin type is eight or nine figures per mint per year for the CuNi business strike Ikes. People will believe there will never be a market for these until the Treasury orders all Ikes held by banks or Mints to be destroyed.

 

Does anyone think the struck through "E LU IBUS UNUM" should be considered a variety?

 

I totally agree with your views of current desirability of Ikes as opposed to Morgans and Peace, however, the current availability of Ikes allows many collectors to actually complete a set of coins in fairly high grade without breaking the bank. Even a lifetime of collecting Morgans and Peace, for most collectors, a complete set in unc. condition is impossible to attain. I personally don,t like any of the larger size coinage in any less than 66 grade, which eliminates me from collecting more than a couple of type coins in the Morgan and Peace series. As for variety issues in the Ikes, I have a peg leg and the 72 t-1,2,&3 bus. strikes, but don,t collect minor varieties, as there are far too many for my budget. I,m not familiar with any strike thru varieties. I guess the one Ike I really need is the 74-D silver strike to complete my set of major Ike varieties. Does anyone have a few extras? P.S. Are banks or the Treasury holding B.U. coins or slot machine coins?

 

I don't think it matters either way, if the general perception is that the coins are there. Beyond that, I'm fairly certain that the coins in the Treasury and Fed Res banks are UNC... so BU or better... and sitting in bags in their vaults. This, combined with all the Mint sets sitting in dealer inventories, means there are literal tons of MS-62 or better examples not in collections... and probably many MS-64 or better raw coins.

On a side note, I contacted Ike Group about the coin, and they said it appears to be a possible plugged die. Could someone explain that?

 

Another thing that Ikes have and Morgans can't touch is very low prices for very scarce and desirable coins. Obviously MS-66 and 67 are far too scarce to become a popular collectible but all of these are very desirable in Nice choice MS-64 and MS-65 and with only a little effort a pretty nice collection can be made for as little as $100. Realistically it will probasbly cost a little more but not a great deal and not necessarily.

The only reason Ikes are so cheap is they don't get the attention that other US dollars get. If they ever get that kind of attention then some of these coins will have substantial premiums even in MS-60. Several would be worth 25 or 30$ even in MS-63.

Not that I'd expoect then to ever have so much attention but then they might never have less attention than they do today.

 

This won't happen until you buy up all the vault bags and mint sets... and destroy them, cladking. Or until inflation causes NiCu coinage to have values above 20x face...

 

Why do you believe there are any bags of these? Are they date specific? are they Mint bags or are they circulated? The circulated Ikes I,ve gotton from banks are mostly from old slot machines and are only worth a buck. They make good poker chips but forget finding a collectable one in the bunch. The lowest price Ike I want on E- Bay is $149.00. Several others I need range from $250-to $2500.00 and none of these are better than MS66, and a couple of these are 65,s. I,d love to collect them in 67 for the clads, but my pockets are not deep enough. If I wanted better MS Silvers, I need only the 69,s. As for proofs, only 70,s will improve my set. If I were to only collect the finest grades, it would set me back $80,000-100,000. I,ll pass on these for now...need to win a lottery first! I don,t think there,s any limit how high these finest coins can fly, as the pops are so very low.
Compare these pops to Morgan series pops, and the Ikes appear to be extremely under valued. The only thing holding the Ikes back is their collector base, which I firmly believe will grow over the years.

 

Comparing PCGS "prices," we get:

MS 66 mint mark set Morgan: unattainable
MS 65 mint mark set Morgan (ex. major varieties): ~$3mm

MS 66 mint mark set Ike: $6273
MS 65 mint mark set Ike: $821
PF 69 DMPL mint mark set Ike (excluding 1971 Type I Reverse): $461

So, basically, you could buy 400 MS66+PF69 DMPL Ike sets for the price of one complete MS65 Morgan set.

You mention the difference in population as a basis for value, but I firmly believe that is a faulty assumption. The lack of a population for Ike dollars is more likely due to a lack of submissions of the coin in all grades.

It's somewhat of a catch-22 situation. Since the prices for Ikes in non-optimal (MS-64/65) grades are prohibitive to get graded (you'll lose your grading fees chasing grades), the only Ikes getting submitted are ones that the submitter feel have a reasonable shot at MS-66 (or better) grades. It's entirely possible (and quite likely) that there are MS-66/65 borderline coins that will never get submitted until there is a greater market.

Supply is restricted, since there's a lack of demand in mid-tier grades. Demand is restricted, since there's a lack of graded supply, coupled with a seemingly endless raw population.

As for the bags, they're out there. In bank vaults, just sitting in inventory, sometimes sitting to fulfill reserve requirements.

 

Geez. I might as well go read War & Peace over this page. I'll be through it more quickly