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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 1751496, member: 112"]I haven't visited this thread in a while, not sure why I did today. And will probably wish I hadn't done this an hour from now, but what the heck. Not sure where to start, but it seems that some either have poor memories, or selective memories. But when it comes to toning, exactly who decides what is what ? Any of you, me, somebody else, the TPGs ? I would submit that no matter who it is that decides, it is nothing more than their opinion. Now some will say it is a collective opinion, and I suppose that is probably true. But what happens when you have two collectives, and they disagree ? What do I mean by that ? Fairly simple, I mean what happens when you have two different groups of knowledgeable, or fairly knowledgeable, people who directly disagree with each other on the question of whether or not a given coin is AT or NT - or any of the other abbreviations currently in use ? Which group is right, and who decides ? You see that's the problem with toning, there is nobody that can provide a definitive answer, a right answer. And yeah that includes the TPGs, they can't provide a definitive answer either. Yet some derive a sense of safety, of confidence, as long as a TPG approves of the toning on a given coin and puts it in one of their slabs. Can't say as I blame folks for that really, the TPGs are what we have. But that's where memory comes into play. Of course that's also where memory sometimes leaves the game, or becomes selective, and people only remember what they want or choose to remember. I've been doing this a long time, longer than most, less than a few others. What is the this I refer to ? Coins in general, but also participation on various coin forums and their predecessors, email lists. But time really isn't the issue because the controversy, or discussion if you prefer, regarding AT and NT has really only been going on for about 15 years. No I'm not saying it didn't exist before that, it definitely did. I'm saying that it has only been widely discussed, for about that long. Of course coin forums have only been around for about those same 15 years. And over those past 15 years things have changed. More and more people have become more knowledgeable about toning, some to the point that they think they are authorities on the subject. But I can remember when some of those "authorities" were newbies on the subject, based on their comments, questions, and opinions. And that kind of brings us back to the question of who decides. Who draws the line and says AT, NT, QT, or whatever ?  So let's say the TPGs decide. If they take a toned coin and put it in a regular slab (as opposed to a Details or Genuine slab) then most folks are willing to go along with that decision, to accept it as being right, so it must be right. But wait a minute, is there actually anybody here who has not disagreed with the TPGs on whether or not a given coin, or even group of given coins, is AT or NT ? Anybody ? If there is I sure can't think of them, unless it would somebody who readily admits that they know little to nothing about the subject and therefore can't say. So what happens when these folks disagree with the TPGs, who's right then ? Who decides ? You see, that's the problem. When people disagree with the TPGs it's because they are convinced that they are right and the TPGs are wrong. But then there's the times when they agree with the TPGs, so the TPGs are right. Why ? Because they agree. What I'm saying is, there is no individual or group who can decide because it doesn't matter who it is that voices the opinion on if the coin is AT or NT, the only ones that will be right are the ones that agree with them. AT, NT, QT - whatever, the only thing that exists is an opinion, a guess ! Unless of course you are the person who doctored the coin. But even then you still have to define doctored - what is and what isn't. Ooooops, another opinion.[/QUOTE]

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