Post a favorite SEGS graded specimen in your collection.

Never owned a SEGS coin. I consider them raw coins.

 

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Probably good call, but if a number of them tend to be graded a point or two below what should be expected, they may be something to look at at shows, etc, to see if some can be plucked, made raw, then possibly later slabbed by a major TPG.

 

I treat PCGS and NGC as raw coins too.

 

only 1938 pairs
Struck in silver the orginial nickel design.

 

That is too bad. Guess you grade better than the TPGs.

 

There’s definitely a few on the forums who think of themselves as the ultimate authority in grading

 

Not exactly but it is not hard to find the coins that are over graded.
Those don't deserve the plastic/opinion that they are entombed in.

 

No, the slabs just dictate the price. If I agree that the coin is worth the price dictated by the slab, then I would buy it. If not, then I won’t. It’s simple logic, and is basically treating the coin as raw.

 

I haven't seen any SEGS thai coins whatsoever so no luck there. Haven't seen any SEGs world crowns either so most of my collection is ngc, pcgs, a few anacs and one ICG.

 

SEGS has done many coins for me. They have been 100% accurate on every coin as to VAM or variety.

 

I send all my best coins to SEGS. The 1693 Henneberg 2/3 Thaler one I have in my photo is an example of one I had graded by them recently.

 

I had a coin from Thailand they graded for me but have sold it.

 

I sent them a couple of variety Lincoln Memorial Cents recently. They were 1971 DDO1 and 1972 DDO3.

 

I believe we could make your statement about any of the TPG, as we could locate coins in open auctions virtually any day, certified by any of the TPG, that when resubmitted would be returned with a differing grade. Pro-TPG may say it's an anomaly, where others may state contarily, and as in the PCI trial, both may be found correct.

I believe we're only talking degrees of variance from an unpublished standard, rather than absolutes.

Until legislation is passed requiring offending TPG to reimburse damages, the conditions of improper grading will never be resolved.

It's just a matter of time before offending certifiers are removed from the market.

Until that time, CAVEAT EMPTOR, and don't rely on others to determine your choice.

JMHO

 

That has been the one thing about SEGS ever since they opened. They have always been the top TPG for variety attribution, they do more varieties and have a much lower error rate than the other services.

 

That's good to know. I have never seen any attributed coins in their slabs. I will have to keep a better eye out.

 

I here your point, and wouldn't argue with your statement.
Who would you say should do this policing? And do you think that this would be good for the Hobby?
Having a person or authority overlooking every coin doesn't seem beneficial. What does seem beneficial is to have each grading company use the same standards and even the playing field. Only the collectors are going to be able to do this. It starts with collectors refusing to buy the over graded junk put out by any TPG. The problem is that PCGS and NGC have made grading even more subjective than it was when they started, and this confuses the collector that doesn't invest his time into learning to grade for himself.

A collector that sees himself selling his coins down the road is going to send his coins to one of the top two TPG's. Does it really matter what grade they put on the slab if it is intended to make a profit?

The collector should/will usually have a problem with it, but 99% of the time the dealer won't. They are their to make a profit/sale. And over graded usually means more money, especially to the unsuspecting buyer.

If younger/newer collectors would just see that this is a game of profit ad rarely does it benefit them the TPGS would use more discretion and start resorting back to what put them in business to start with. Unless it was only from a money making stand point then they will never change.
The top two, and more so PCGS has completely gotten away from even their own published standards. How do you police that?
You really can't because they don't use the standards that put them in business. Each company has formed their own standards, even if that means that putting damaged coins in slabs, even more so changing the very definition of what AU means.
They have completely thrown the words Gem, Mint state and AU right out the door. T's pretty sad when you think about it.

I have nothing against SEGS and I really don't know much about them. I say if a collector is looking for an honest grade that fits their own standards then their are probably a few of the lesser popular TPG's that one can use.

My only thoughts to this practice is that when it is time to have your collection liquidated. The price that you will receive from a coin is not going to be near the price received from a slab from the top two. Hopefully when using these lesser value TPG's they are doing so only to have the coin authenticated and protected by a slab for their own enjoyment.

 

He might just be a more knowledgeable grader than PCGS. The 1925 Peace I mentioned went from a PCGS AU details Questionable Toning all the way up to an MS-64+ CAC. So from a $30 coin to just over $9,000 with buyers premium. A sucker is born every minute. Buy the coin based on eye appeal, not the holder.

 

There's no point in having more than one company if they worked together to make the exact same standard. Just like there's no point in Coke and Pepsi if they taste the same, or Ford and Chevy if they build the exact same car, or Xbox and PlayStation if its the same system, or Fox Sports and ESPN if they show the same programing, or McDonalds and Wendy's with the same menu etc.

Not even remotely close.

 

I agree with everything you've said, and this condition with grading standards has continued because most buyers really don't understand the legality of current grading standards. At some time it's very probable that because of conditions similar to The PCI litigation, which probably with different representation, would have had a differing outcome. It's likely that I'd have established a more objective outcome, as I believe also would JUDGE JUDY. It's highly likely that an evaluation for taxation of an extensive estate will precipitate an action that will drastically change the Numismatic "Industry".

Generally, in a legal action, unless there are published verbal/pictorial standards supported by an authoritative party, heresay, subjectivity, opinions, unsupported statements are inadmissible. If new industry standards can't be shown, an objective court probably could/would accept/require value establishment to be based on the last published written/pictorial standard or raw/intrinsic value for grading. The requirement of grading being determined by use of a published written pictorial standard is reasonable if it can be shown that the grading standards for coins in an estate can be shown varying by resubmission to that TPG.

It's likely the IRS could/would require an evaluation based on the TPG retail schedule for taxation or recent net auction average sales value. The estate would need to prove a basis for the net tax amount due.

A thesis could easily be written on this horrendous situation which is yet to be tested in the courts. I can virtually guarantee that unlike others, the "industry" will not be found "too big to fail".

CAVEAT EMPTOR