Possible solution to the fake slab problem

Is there really any reason to record sales? Your idea would work just fine if each grading service would do the following (they already do most of this):

1. Give each coin a unique Serial Number that will never be reused by that company.

2. Record the Serial Number, Series, Date, Mint Mark, Grade, and any distinguishing details of the coin.

3. Store this information, along with a photograph of the obverse and reverse of the coin in a permanent database.

4. Make this database available on some level - to registered dealers, create a subscription service, offer to authenticate the coin for a nominal fee, etc.

That would make it relatively easy to guarantee that the coin you just bought is the same coin PCGS, etc actually put in the slab. No record of sales is needed.

 

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could not agree more, hence my advice that if they are in doubt, pass on the coin as well as only buy from dealers who have credentials you can trust. i may be the only person who has never used ebay. i stick w/ auction houses like heritage, stacks, ect. and dealers w/ png credentials. if i trade w/ an individual i would want advice from someone i trust ,who they have dealt w/ before. i also look for credentials and society memberships from the given seller.

i do not know how to solve the ebay problem. if you buy a fake anything or misrepresented item....the person who sold it to you should be held responsible. period. if they bought it fake...then it is their turn to go back to where they purchased it. only my opinion.

that is why i try to constantly urge beginners to SLOW DOWN, you get so hungry for all these different coins out there and often spend money on "bargains" and "specials", THEN find out they got burned. numismatics is a place where you need to seek knowledge and advice FIRST, then go buy coins. you can also help satisfy your appetite for a coin purchase by buying inexpensive coins or search bank rolls. doing this will save them so much heartache and money in the end...once again...only my very humble opinion.
best wishes.....steve

 

just carl, no offense, but you don't like slabs, and I don't expect an old timer to accept any new changes in the first place, but changes are coming, no matter who don't like. The next generation will accept the change as nothing new and part of collecting.

Just like those of this generation accept slabs as part of collecting, but you must remember the controversy and disregard for slabbed coins in the beginning.

I suggested this because I saw two identical PCGS slabs, one on Heritage and the other on ebay. The fake was a new slab, but the coin was toned when compared to the Heritage slab.

This man from China, who makes them, said he is responsable for most of the counterfeit US coins made, will invest thousands of dollars to make any slab anyone wants or any coin anyone wants, and is trying to gain US support by tempting other ebay sellers to sale the coins and slabs he makes. He also offers pictures of thousands of fake coins and fake slabs.

Also, he has been reported to ebay more than once.

So while some choose to respond to my post with sarcasm, and disregard, this man is duping people out of their money, and is a crook. We should take this afront personally, and find a way of thwarting his efforts instead of mine.

The future and integrity of slab collecting is in jeopardy, whether you like slabs or not. But slabs are here to stay. One must decide if they want fakes or authentic slabs in the future, because if all grading companies stopped producing slabs, the the crooks would come out in force with fakes and replicas. As if that's not already their plans in the first place. But it could get worse.

Not only is the slab acting as storage for our coins, and third party opinion between sellers and buyers, but it now has the job of saving slabbed coin collector's hobby.

The fact that this doesn't apply to you is irrelevent because there are more that it does apply to, then those it doesn't.

 

Don't track my sells...my buyers want private transactions, some pay in CASH, not wanting name/address on there check be known. tracking slabs next to impossible. Wally Worlds use of tracking chips in electronics is scary enough, if it were just the box , it would be ok, but its inside electronic device.

 

I don't think it would ever come down to a tracking device. And, I still think a slab that doesn't carry a cheap paper label that a six year old could duplicate on a home computer would be the easiest and most cost-effective method. Similar technology is used to inscribe diamonds as certified. I don't see why a slab's contents couldn't be laser inscribed directly into the slab itself. Then, if it were cracked open, it would be obvious and a replacement slab would be just as obvious. It's a five dollar solution to a multi-billion dollar problem...which is why it'll probably never happen.
Guy~

 

All the TPGs have to do to solve the problem is to put the serial numbers and good photos of each coin they process on a public website. Then, anyone can look up the coin they own or are thinking of purchasing to confirm that the coin is the one that was actually slabbed. There is no privacy issue with this approach.

 

There's no privacy issue with my suggestion, with some modification. If I can access a photo and slabs label on a public website then so can this guy from china. He will spare no expense to make an exact replica. It's not the solution.

I'm not against educating. My website is dedicated to this and I'm averaging 110 visits a day, and almost 9,000 page views a month. I often get emails of thanks, and questions. So I'm trying to do my part with pages for all business strike coins, errors, non-errors and TPG page.

Anyway, I have a few other ideas also. Here's another suggestion.

To make it more difficult on counterfeiters, why not make a hologram label number that shows symbols for the numbers when looking straight at the slab, but when turned one way shows a set of numbers, and then turned another way it shows another different set of numbers. It would be symbols and dual numbers that can't be copied from just a picture.

For ebay sellers that sale slabs they would have enter both numbers before they can list in at auction. Ebay or any dealer can submit the numbers online, and the only responce from the grading service's data base would be authentic or fake, and no other details. Of course, some may want to verify all the information about the coin in a holder, and this would need a solution.

This would not solve the older holder slabs from being copied, but if I had thousands or millions in my slabs then I would have them reholdered anyway. This all would start for this year and on. It doesn't solve the problem completely, but it would be a good start for the future.

 

DoubleDie, Again I applaud you for offering a suggestion to solve a problem. Many just complain. Your next step, if this is something that you want to pursue, is to write a letter to all the TPG's and national organizations (such as ANA) and bounce the idea off of them. Get them behind you to get your idea rolling.