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Possible contemporary fouree or modern Attica imitation tetradrachm?
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<p>[QUOTE="Lolli, post: 4620329, member: 96900"]It is almost certainly a modern tourist cast fake.</p><p><br /></p><p><font size="6"><b>1. fouree, means plated ancient counterfeits with copper core. Your coin has no copper core, you would see it under the circular holes from gas bubbles and under the 2 counterstamps (hair obverse and owl reverse) and under the filemark on edge (which is fresh because you can still see the VERY VERY VERY fine vertical scratches caused by the file.) </b></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><b>2. I have never heard that <b>fouree were produced by casting, generally they casted a planchet of copper and then they did a very very thin foil of silver or gold on the planchet and then they struck the counterfeit from either hand cut dies or transfer dies. "</b></b></font></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="6"><b><b>"Counterfeit Coins of Archaic and Classical Greece"</b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b>"(Figure 6) Athens 4thcentury B.C.E.fourréetetradrachm. Smith (1997) <a href="http://dougsmith.ancients.info/fourreeg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://dougsmith.ancients.info/fourreeg.html" rel="nofollow">http://dougsmith.ancients.info/fourreeg.html</a>. ThisfourreéAthenian tetradrachm is likely from the 4thcentury B.C.E. as Athena’s eye is in profile. This is a cast fake as it shows the typical signs of this counterfeiting technique." </b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b>The coin shown there <b><b>(Figure 6)</b> </b>is a corroded <b><b>fourrée (you can see red copper under a thin silver plating) produced by striking</b> and not cast, the holes are sharper and not so round and so typical corrosion holes, casting holes from gas bubbles are generally very round (circular).</b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b><b>You have to consider that copper is a non-precious metal and the more noble a metal is the higher the resistance against acid/corrosion. And so siver has a much higher resitance against corrosion. <b><b><b><font size="6">That there is no copper under test cut <b><b><b><b>(Figure 6)</b></b></b></b> implies that his <b><b><b><b>fourrée</b></b></b> </b>was struck with transfer dies in ancient times and that the mother had an test cut and so this test cut was transferred into transfer dies and so of course on tranfer die fakes, too. </font></b></b></b></b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b><b><b><b><b>Fourrée generally have a massive corrosion problem because of the low acid (corrosion) resistence of copper and if anywhere the plating is not intact anymore then from this point the copper will be eaten (corrode) with time by acid even under plating. So the plating can start for example on the edge and eat the copper from inside (und plating). </b></b></b></b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b><b><b><b><b>3. Next point is that even if you consider that your coin would have a copper core (which is not true), that they would have to cast your coin first and then doing the cast fake in melted silver bath to plate it. Ok, but why did they remove the sprue after plating?</b></b></b></b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b><b><b><b><b>This would be stupid because they only used a thin silver layer for plating and if you then remove the sprue on edge you would remove certainly the plating there and you could then see the copper under plating. But we have many thin vertical scratches which would and could not be there if the sprue would have been removed before silver bath, because the thin silver layer would be 100 % thick enough to cover this scratches. </b></b></b></b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><b><b><b><b><b><b>4. As written above <b><b><b><b>fourrée</b></b></b></b> sould have corrosion due to corrosion of the copper under plating, (to find fourees without corrosion is extremely difficult), but I can not see any corrosion on your coin only casting defects and holes from gas bubbles and no copper.</b></b></b></b></b></b></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6">[ATTACH=full]1144002[/ATTACH]</font></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="6"></font>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Lolli, post: 4620329, member: 96900"]It is almost certainly a modern tourist cast fake. [SIZE=6][B]1. fouree, means plated ancient counterfeits with copper core. Your coin has no copper core, you would see it under the circular holes from gas bubbles and under the 2 counterstamps (hair obverse and owl reverse) and under the filemark on edge (which is fresh because you can still see the VERY VERY VERY fine vertical scratches caused by the file.) [/B] [B]2. I have never heard that [B]fouree were produced by casting, generally they casted a planchet of copper and then they did a very very thin foil of silver or gold on the planchet and then they struck the counterfeit from either hand cut dies or transfer dies. "[/B][/B][/SIZE] [SIZE=6][B][B]"Counterfeit Coins of Archaic and Classical Greece"[/B][/B] [B][B]"(Figure 6) Athens 4thcentury B.C.E.fourréetetradrachm. Smith (1997) [URL]http://dougsmith.ancients.info/fourreeg.html[/URL]. ThisfourreéAthenian tetradrachm is likely from the 4thcentury B.C.E. as Athena’s eye is in profile. This is a cast fake as it shows the typical signs of this counterfeiting technique." [/B][/B] [B][B]The coin shown there [B][B](Figure 6)[/B] [/B]is a corroded [B][B]fourrée (you can see red copper under a thin silver plating) produced by striking[/B] and not cast, the holes are sharper and not so round and so typical corrosion holes, casting holes from gas bubbles are generally very round (circular).[/B][/B][/B] [B][B][B]You have to consider that copper is a non-precious metal and the more noble a metal is the higher the resistance against acid/corrosion. And so siver has a much higher resitance against corrosion. [B][B][B][SIZE=6]That there is no copper under test cut [B][B][B][B](Figure 6)[/B][/B][/B][/B] implies that his [B][B][B][B]fourrée[/B][/B][/B] [/B]was struck with transfer dies in ancient times and that the mother had an test cut and so this test cut was transferred into transfer dies and so of course on tranfer die fakes, too. [/SIZE][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B] [B][B][B][B][B][B]Fourrée generally have a massive corrosion problem because of the low acid (corrosion) resistence of copper and if anywhere the plating is not intact anymore then from this point the copper will be eaten (corrode) with time by acid even under plating. So the plating can start for example on the edge and eat the copper from inside (und plating). [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B] [B][B][B][B][B][B]3. Next point is that even if you consider that your coin would have a copper core (which is not true), that they would have to cast your coin first and then doing the cast fake in melted silver bath to plate it. Ok, but why did they remove the sprue after plating?[/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B] [B][B][B][B][B][B]This would be stupid because they only used a thin silver layer for plating and if you then remove the sprue on edge you would remove certainly the plating there and you could then see the copper under plating. But we have many thin vertical scratches which would and could not be there if the sprue would have been removed before silver bath, because the thin silver layer would be 100 % thick enough to cover this scratches. [/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B] [B][B][B][B][B][B]4. As written above [B][B][B][B]fourrée[/B][/B][/B][/B] sould have corrosion due to corrosion of the copper under plating, (to find fourees without corrosion is extremely difficult), but I can not see any corrosion on your coin only casting defects and holes from gas bubbles and no copper.[/B][/B][/B][/B][/B][/B] [/SIZE] [SIZE=6] [ATTACH=full]1144002[/ATTACH][/SIZE] [SIZE=6] [/SIZE][/QUOTE]
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Possible contemporary fouree or modern Attica imitation tetradrachm?
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