Poll: "In God We Trust" on coins?

This assumes that the founding fathers specifically and intentionally decided not to put any reference to a Deity, much less a specific religion (which would have been the Church of England, which was the established church in the Colonies-look up the situation in Virginia in 1780 or so).
Had the founding fathers, members of the first Congress, or even those involved with the initial US coinage (Jefferson, Hamilton, Rittenhouse, etc.) intentionally decided not to put any reference to God on our coinage, shouldn't there be a record of such a decision?

What I suspect (my own personal opinion) is that the founding fathers felt that there was no need to put a motto on coinage as that it was so commonly accepted (the existence and relevance of God) that the need for a motto on coinage was superfluous.

If someone can find any reference to such a discussion to specifically exclude references to a Deity, then those objecting to IGWT might have an establishment argument. Otherwise, ....

 

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I think the fact that they didn't put it on coinage says enough. I do agree that they might have found it redundant in a way and wasn't needed.

 

Majority Beliefs Of "Founding Fathers"

I believe your statements are well documented in succinct public expressions by many of those formulating our original constitution, stating exception to the controlling influences of organized religion. They acknowledged an unexplainable positive direction in their lives, which might be attributed to a "divine influence". As an individual whose formative years included extensive parochial education, my study of American history eventually evolved to agnosticism. I believe, many of our fore-fathers may also have recognized same, because of the extreme divisions of Christian "religions". A "Divine Influence" which many might accept as GOD. Although America may be, in the majority, a "Christian" country, this "religion" is divided into more than a dozen divisive sects, which have significant extremes in their beliefs. A valid reason for beings of intelligence to legislate separation of state from a religion bearing little continuity of faith. Digestion of this thread alone, will quickly reveal the divisions of thought, by simply asking individuals of professed "like beliefs", to define the meaning/acceptance of a three letter word. May GOD be with us all in finding/determining a unity/acceptance of beliefs.

 

Yes.

It doesn't require that someone believe or not believe in deity or deities to believe stacking up bodies is a good idea. We need to find an acceptance of each other that transcends such petty considerations as the religion or race of those who are different than ourselves.

The world has gotten far too small to contain bickering and bloodshed. It's not our beliefs we need to get rid of so much as our convictions that our beliefs are important to anyone but ourselves.

 

Which is why Roe v Wade will never be overturned. Conservatives may be against abortion but can you imagine what will happen when corporations no longer have the "right to privacy?"

Two things I've still been thinking about since this thread cooled off.

1) The "Same God" theory. If the Same God that talked to Moses then sent Jesus and then sent Mohammad, shouldn't all followers of this Same God be Muslim? I can't imagine Christians or Jews agreeing that it is the Same God just because the Muslims say so. I'm no expert on Religion but:

2) I'm not sure why it is that considering what Jesus or The Only God There Is would think of this topic is outside the discussion. Most of us sound like we're members of The Church of The Founding Fathers. That doesn't mean that we agree, just that their opinion is the only consideration. I wonder what they would think about us worshiping their words in our actions over any consideration of God's word. In the end, will we have to answer to Jefferson?

 

The Message Of GOD In Coinage?

I believe you've properly stated the essence of what a "Divine Influence" should stimulate in humans. An acceptance of others, regardless of Creed, Color, Culture, Religious Affiliation. If there's truly a Godly influence in our culture, and since seemingly many have found money to be the supreme motivational influence in their lives, what would be more apropos than our currency to convey a message of acceptance/acknowledgment of a supreme influence? Hopefully, future generations will find Universal acceptance by reading the message "inscribed" on our seemingly most desirable possessions. Spread the message!!

 

I think what some of the less religious people in this discussion have alluded to is that there are more religions than just the Large letter "G" God religions that you mention, Doug.

The hindus, the buddhists, and many other more modern religions (new age, scientology, etc.) are NOT being represented!!!

You may know all that there is to know about theology, but my point has and continues to be that there is no "all-inclusive" God. That you can't identify "one force" that is truly universal, merely one that appears universal to western religion.

This country was founded and the principle of inclusion of everyone, regardless of faith, is a tenon on which it was built.

Not majority rule, not we started the club, so you play by our rules. They set forth the guidelines and those guidelines have been interpreted (conveniently) by people to be used whatever way that they please.

I also have an issue with adding a motto to our money almost 100 years after the revolution, then adding it to our currency some 80 years after that and making claim that "the founding fathers" intended this or would approve. They were all dead at either point and could not be consulted!!!

That said, no one really knows what exactly their intents were. All we can do is try to accumulate more of what they said in order to give context. We need to be careful though, because many times what they said as individuals does not translate into what they thought the law of the land should be. Often they felt that although they may have feelings toward one way on a subject, that the government should not hold this same position. We should examine what they said in their public comments in order to try to interpret thoughts on public matters.

As for the subject of God, there are too many fragments to unite in one word. I don't care if you studied theology or zoology, nobody knows everything on a single subject. There's just no way to make certain things work for everyone, so we need to consider what will work for everyone and try to practice some tolerance for the rest.

 

Which Founding Fathers despised Christians? Washington was definitely a Christian and served on the Vestry (local church governing board) of the Falls (Anglican/Episcopal) Church. His attendance at other churches is well documented.

Are you confusing a prohibition on requiring others to believe and worship exactly as you do (the establishment clause) as despising Christians?

 

I have not kept up with this forum, so sorry if any of this is a repeat.

1. It is clear to me that as a nation (not everyone in it), we believe in God and trust in Him.
2. It is also clear to me that as a nation, we allow every individual the freedom to believe in their own God or to not believe at all.

Point One: Many of the founding fathers recognized the hand of Providence in the winning of our independence. A great many of our patriotic songs have reference to God:

• Star Spangled Banner: "And this be our moto, in God is our trust."
• America the Beautiful: "God shed his grace on thee"
• My Country Tis of Thee: "Our fathers' God to Thee, Author of Liberty, To thee we sing, Long may our land be bright With Freedom's holy light, Protect us by thy might Great God, our King."
• God Bless America: Enough said
• The Navy Hymn: "Oh Father, hear an humble prayer, For those in peril in the air! Amen."

In addition, our money has reference to God (upheld in the courts) as well as our Pledge to the Flag. Congress opens with prayer. And many other items we can point to.

Point Two: I know people who choose not to say "Under God" in the pledge......they have that right. I know people who don't believe in God, they are not thrown in jail or discriminated against. Our laws are such that all have the freedom and the right to believe what they will with regard to religion.

Conclusion: So, why can't we have both these facts live together? I don't understand why some who don't believe (not saying anyone here in particular) want to make sure that these items are removed? Take it off our money, then what will be next....changing the lyrics in our songs and changing our pledge, and removing all 10 commandments references in court houses, etc. Some of them who enjoy the tolerance of this nation don't have the tolerance to accept that this nation believes and recognizes the hand of God in our heritage.

 

It was added to coins starting in the 1860's, paper money and the Pledge in the 1950's. Vehement objectors use those points to say that it wasn't always there so it should be removed.

As has been pointed out by you and previously in the thread, courts have upheld both as not being unconstitutional yet the battle goes on.

 

vintage

 

Dear Gd you forgot about hindus unless you are putting them in the pagan bracket

 

two mottos? uh, the united states of america has only one national motto, "in god we trust," which was adopted in 1956. prior to that, we did NOT have an official motto. "e pluribus unum" was approved by congress to be on the national seal, and therefore the motto was considered by the public to be the national motto, but it was never officially adopted by congress.

 

Anyone who "despises Christians" is a hateful intolerant bigot.

Give me names of these Founding Fathers who "despised Christians".

 

what happened to the "separation of church and state" laid out by our founding fathers?

 

This is very "blank and white" thinking. It fails to honor the subtlety of thought of the Founders.

Perhaps it's more accurate to say many were not orthodox Christians and held a wide variety of views. Just like today.

There is much room in an given room for a wide diversity of thought. I see it every day. That's not divisiveness. It's the nature of the Bible. Approached from a purely literary perspective, it leaves room for a wide range of reactions depending on one's life experiences. That is a good thing.

There is no question most of the Founders, as a group, were raised in Christian environments, married Christian women in Christian ceremonies, had their children baptized, frequently attended Christian churches, and were laid to rest attended by Christian ministers in accordance with their personal wishes.

Some choose to focus on a narrow view - exceptions to the above - and convince themselves of anything they like.

But I have seen people pound their fists on the table screaming "They were Deists !!!" without knowing much about the personal biographies of the men in question. Nor did they know much about Deism !

 

How many people who make this claim can explain to me the basic tenets of Deism ? Where did it come from ? How did it express itself ? Why did it vanish ? What remnants did it leave behind ?

 

Where did they use those words ?

Consider reading the first 25 pages of this thread.